Fair enough and a very good point.



The dealer mucking Estelle's hand, who just went all in, at a 10k event of the ME, is not what I would equate to someone missing their exit on the highway; the driver can fix that by just getting off/on at the next exit; at the very least, he'll be able to rectify the situation even if it takes him another 30 minutes.


I think it's more like this: Estelle just got severely rear-ended by an inexperienced driver because he didn't realize that driving too fast, especially when it's raining outside(ESPN/camera crew) can cause a very serious accident, an accident that could've been prevented if the driver had more experience and knew better than to drive 70mph under extreme weather conditions. An accident, you say? A mistake? It was a mistake/accident that was due to negligence.

If you think I'm splitting hairs, I'm actually not; and maybe it is a fine line, but, it's that fine line that separates the really good dealers from the "ok" ones. You would not have mucked Estelle's hand even under those conditions. Why? Because you're simply more in tuned to what's going on to make a mistake of that magnitude. I'm sure you make mistakes, but not ones as big as those. If and when you ever start to make these types of negligenct acts/mistakes, then it's time for you to throw in the towel. IMHO.

Lol at "All the blame in the world doesn't bring them back from the dead." Couldn't agree more.

I agree with a lot of what you say on this topic, but this sums up the fundamental point we disagree on. It's not understandable. There are people who work at similar-paying, similarly-boring jobs who lose fingers and limbs if they go on autopilot. It's only because it's someone else's money/well-being at stake that dealers feel so comfortable going on autopilot.

Fair enough. I actually used that analogy because I was just the other day a passenger in a car driven by someone who usually drives alone, and we nearly ran into somebody due to a last minute "oops that was my exit" lane change.


You're saying you don't understand how it happened, even after all these posts explaining it? Understanding =/= forgiveness. But it's important to understand why these things happen so that (a) dealers can avoid making these mistakes and (b) players can learn how to better protect themselves. If you still don't understand how it happened, please re-read the thread. Otherwise you're leaving yourself vulnerable.

This probably isn't what you meant, but I go on auto-pilot and I absolutely respect the money at stake. Humans have two primary ways of thinking: conscious and subconscious. You don't think about breathing. You don't think about driving when you're alone on a sunny day on a country road. That's auto-pilot, and you have a lot more at stake than money. You do think about driving when you're on a rainy five lane highway with tight lanes and half a dozen trucks all around you.

Players have commented that I'm more aware of everything going on at the table than any other dealer. That's because I'm not paying conscious attention to every detail. My subconscious brain is the one pitching the cards, spreading the flop, taking the rake, moving the button, etc. I've trained my auto-pilot well, so that I can pay more attention to who's in the hand, how much was the bet, have all the mucks come back with the proper number of cards, etc.

But ask me what the flop was that I just cleared off the board half a second ago, and I couldn't tell you. Hell, the only time I make a memory of who had the button last is when the table has established they won't stop moving it. That's why the mediocre dealers don't care if you move it, because they don't have good auto-pilot.

Just because something is able to be understood doesn't mean it's "understandable" in this context. I understand that Charles Manson is crazy, but when you describe his crimes, I don't say "it's understandable."


I happen to know several school bus drivers. (no joke) They never go on autopilot, because there are kids on board and because any traffic violation threatens their livelihood. They also don't get paid a lot. My money is not as important as someone's child, but I think it's important enough that you should pay attention.
All I'm asking is that dealers don't automuck live hands. Especially in an all-in or big money situation. It's ludicrous to me. 2 cards sitting in front of a player are that player's cards until you witness a fold. If you don't do this, then all you're doing is proving it's possible. It shouldn't take being in the top 1% of dealers not to muck someone's live hand that they didn't fold.

I just want to say that those people DO lose fingers and limbs.

If you are a human being and if you have a job with a repetitive nature, it is IMPOSSIBLE not to go on autopilot when doing that job (or certain parts of that job). Doesn't matter what that job is, simple or complex. If it is repetitive, then the way the human brain works is that it will create an engram for that repetitive motion and hard wire that engram so that your subconscious can access it.

Now, when "something" atypical occurs then your brain has a reflex that kicks the task from your subconscious brain to your conscious brain so you can access higher brain functions to deal with the situation (i.e. you are driving and notice flares up ahead) but barring that, we are hardwired for autopilot, otherwise, it would be impossible to function on day to day stuff.

There is so much stimuli, so much information coming at us every second, that the above is the ONLY way we can handle it. In fact, not only are our brains automated but we are also hardwired to forget things that aren't crucial. 99.9% of the stuff we do every day is deleted from our short term memory.

Word usage, then. You seem to know exactly what I mean.

Um, okay?

And yet it happens. Best you can do is understand why it happens and take steps to protect yourself.

Let's say our dealers are going slow and only getting 30 hands an hour and our room is only getting 100 hours of play a day. That's 3000 hands a day. Rounding down we'll say 20,000 hands a week. 1,000,000 hands a year.

It doesn't matter if this room has only a 0.0001% failure rate. If you're that one hand a year, it's going to suck for you. Protect your hand. It's the only way to be sure.