Hello All,

I have been reading and can't find a source to help me, so I want to ask all of you.

Situation: $550 buyin tournament in B&M casino. A lot of the players (including me) won our ticket when we won another tournament earlier in the year. The ticket had my table and seat assigned (as I would assume all the other free rollers as well). Get to the tournie, and around 10 to 12 tables are in play and with about 5 minutes before start, there are 48 or so players registered. I didn't have to register as they stated I was already in the system and to go take my seat.
As the tournie starts, there are only 2 of us at the table: me and a hyper aggressive who played 90%+ hands preflop. The rest of the tables (excluding one other) had 4 to 5 at them. Tournament Director states Shuffle up and Deal, but says our two tables can't play until at least a third comes. We wait 5 minutes. Third player sits and for at least 15 minutes we play 3 handed. I realize that half way through level 1 there are 55 to 60 entries (so each table should have at least 5 to 6 REGISTERED players) and we still only have 3. So now the blinds are going around twice as fast as the other tables. The hyper aggressive guy is way over the top and so unless I have something worth taking to battle for 6 to 8 xx bb, I fold. By the time we do in fact get 3 more players, I am down almost 12% of my stack and I've even won one of the hands I did play and not even off the first level.

Question: Knowing that the room knows 1) all the free rollers registered and where they sit and 2) anyone that buys in before or during the tournament would have a seat assigned, why wouldn't there be at least 3 stacks sitting in the positions being blinded off? I asked the floor manager and he stated (no word of a lie) - "Matt Savage looked at our tournament set up and stated that's the way we should do it"

Now I am pretty sure that a Tournament Director of Matt Savage's caliber wouldn't have told a B&M room to intentionally make a rule that would put a portion of the players at an obvious disadvantage. I think (in my limited ability) that the director would inform the tables with the 3 players, which seats were bought and to put the initial stacks out for bb and sb, wouldn't they? I was also told it wouldn't matter anyways, because there are still only three players playing - WTF??? To me, what it means is that the blinds don't come out of MY STACK 2x faster!!!!!

Help me out here to understand, or am I missing something...and if anyone knows Matt, please have him chime in on this LOL!

Regards,

Drum44

Unless they expect the field to nearly double by way of late entries this seems quite a bit absurd. I don't think you're missing anything, just a poorly run tournament. Where was this?

Hey Suit - thanks for the reply

Forgot to mention this was day 1A of a three day tournament - 1B tomorrow with finals on Saturday. But they would HAVE to have known the pre-registered players before the start and would HAVE to have known their seats. Just beyond me why the stacks weren't out

BTW - It was at a casino here in Calgary AB. Don't know if I am allowed to mention their name here (isn't that a rule on this site?)

Everywhere I have played stacks are out for pre-regstered players. But some places count those stacks as seats occupied and some don't. So there might be a requirement for a # of actual bodies at the table before the dealer can start dealing. Not sure what would happen if a player then got eliminated and the table went below the minimum (never seen it happen)...

Lets start with ... there is no obvious disadvantage to players at a short table at the begining of a tournament. The blinds may come around to you more often but they don't leave the table so as a matter of math there is no disadvantage.

You were at a disadvantage because you didn't know how to adjust your play for the situation. But that is no more unfair then disadvantage a player whose style of play is better suited for short handed suffers when at a full table. Thats just the disadvantage of not being a better player.

That being said my room does not put out stacks for absent registered players until the end of the registration period. I do not like the rule, but I also do not like extended registration. I think it is potentially problematic ... what if 10 players register but only one is present. Why should he have to just sit there and wait.....

Thanks psandman! I think you make some really good points, but playing shorthanded (and playing with the shorthanded mentality) right out of the gate in a tournament isn't the norm. I agree that I didn't adjust like you said, but how many players are ever faced with this situation??? Right or wrong, when I sit down at the table, I am trying to gauge the play and tendencies of the table - something the other tables had the ability to do, while at our table I was forced to play the "short handed" mentality.

Again, I don't disagree that I didn't play it well, my complaint is that I was FORCED to play that, while others were not. If everyone is playing short handed, then I have no leg to stand on.

In my tournaments satellite winners and "freeroll" winners chips are in play at the start of the tournament and that way I know how many players are at each table at the start of the tournament. I also make tables wait until at least three players are there but at least 5/6/7 stacks are in play.

In the tournament in Calgary they had announced that the satellite/freeroll stacks "would not" be in play when they won them so there is nothing they could do in this case barring a total redraw. They said they would fix this in the future. They actually had one table that was sold out and one player physically present.

It wasn't the only thing I found strange about Canadian tournaments. i hope to return someday and hopefully late March for the WPT Deepstacks event.

Why can't they narrow the amount of tables with the small field?

Instead of 10-12 tables just make it 7 tables of 7 players (with one of 6) to allow for any increase of the field once the game has started.

To be fixated on a 10-12 table game is just plain ridiculous.

Thank you Matt for taking your time to respond - it is much appreciated!!!!

I think what you say is what I have seen at the properties (ie Caesars, Bellagio, PH) for the last 8 to 10 years I have been playing in LV, Now, I haven't played every room in LV, but when I saw it here, it really made me think that wasn't right.

I may continue to play there, but unless I see at least 3 to 4 other people at the table prior to the start, I won't sit down and ask for my chips from the dealer. I know that sounds petty, but keeps me in a situation where I don't have to play with a "short handed" mentality right from the get-go!!

Did GE say when they hoped to fix this? I really would like to continue going to this Poker Room and not see this again (tend to see it quite a bit if I remember) as I live within walking distance.

BTW - is the WPT Deepstacks going to be at GE?

Best Regards and Much Appreciation!

Dru

Hey Bundy.

I think in their defense, the previous year had close to 90 to 100 in each flight (Day 1A and B) but I would think they could do what you say and leave 3 tables idle until enough people - say 5 to 6 had signed up. Those 5-6 would be late entries anyway, so waiting a few minutes to open the next table shouldn't really affect them, should it?? Same as a rebuy??

I'm sure there is more to it than above, but I am sure the situation has happened somewhere before and had to be address??

Yes, they were supposed to fix it after the last DS. I hope this wasn't recent?

Yes, there will be the WPT Deepstack Championships in March

Hate to say, but it happened yesterday (Friday) at the GE Casino's Winter Classic $550 Buy In event Day 1A.