Montana offers a lot of 2-4 through 2-20 spread limit games along with 2-5NL and 10-20 limit poker. In Montana, it is a law that pot cannot be over $300.

I would like to discuss how implied odds and pot odds are changed due to this law. I've heard about 10-20 games where there's 10 people in a hand and it's capped at $300 PF with everybody putting $30 into the pot hoping to get lucky. I've also played in 2-5NL games where you 3-bet PF and it's 4 haned and it's only $75 per person to cap the pot and the betting is done.

I've heard that dealers aren't obligated to tell the players how much more it is to be capped. For example, player A bet $150 into a $200 pot, it's only going to be $50 for player B to call. The dealer is supposed to say that the bet is $150 to call, but the dealers are so used to dealing $300 pots that its just second nature for them to know what it's going to be to cap the pot.


I've seen this come up to often. How do you play a hand like this?
2-5NL: Say you pick up 22-99 in LP. UTG+1 makes it $20, 3 callers ($80 in the pot). Do you call and make it a $100 pot with 5 way action, raise, or fold? You flop a set 1 outa 9 times, if you flop a set, the least you can win is $100 more(a total of $180), if it gets to heads up. If eveybody stays in, and lowers your odds of your set holding up, you only have to put in $40 more to cap the pot at $300, puting in $60 youself, and winning a net of $240.

If you're calling $20 PF, you want to be getting 9:1 on your money, or winning $180 just to be breaking even.

Please discuss...

Attention Ray Zee, do you have any history of playing poker in MT?

And here I thought Missouri and Arizona had it bad.

Where in Montana do you live? I didn't realize we had anywhere that offered stakes as high as 2-20 spread, 10-20 fixed, and 2-5nl. Whats the rake in these games?

I have only dealt a few $300 pots, but when I did I usually notified the players how much more it was until the cap.

The highest I played was 1/2nl. I don't think the cap changed my strategy much at these limits.

Montana Chads in Billings offers 2-5NL on Tuesday nights, and 10-20 on most other nights. I've played 2-20 spread in Miles City. I deal $100 NL with a single $2 blind, and sometimes get a $300 pot, depending on the night. The $100 NL game has a $4 max rake, and the 2-5NL and 10-20 is a $5 max rake.

Where do you play at Wesker?

What are the laws there?

Not sure about Arizona, but in Missouri there is some ridiculous limit to the amount of casino chips that a patron can buy in a given time frame (something like $500 every 2 hours).

So what happens in this situation: Pot is $100 3 handed on the river, player A leads $100, player B calls, player C calls.

Does it now become $66 each? If player D calls, does everyone who already called take $16 back?

Maybe being on the button in this case gets you a freeroll, nice huh?

Jimbo

$150 max bet size in AZ.

Yes goofy, the pot will total $400, so each player will get a $33 "rebate".

Ya, and if player D calls, it would only be $50 per player to cap it.

I live in Great Falls and in 1-2, 2-5 NL capped pots happen often. I hate it when it's capped preflop with 5-7 people !!!!! LOTTERY anyone??? I play a 2-10 game that will get capped pots sometimes but not too often.

here:http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=141448

Wow what a gongshow, talk about swongs.

I'm no pro but I hold my own player so I tell you my thoughts but there maybe better ways to play.

First the max you can have in any one hand is $150 on any and all streets. I think in these games you really need to pay attention to table dynamics. When you have a table that has more than 3 manics on it I feel the game tilts from a game where skill players can dominate to GAMBLOORS dominate. If your getting capped pots with more than 4 players pre-flop 50% of the time or better I leave.

In your example if the players will fold and I have 88 or 99 I'll say all in, smaller pairs I'll fold. I want to reduce the players. If people will call just to gamble then I'll just call with 66-JJ and if no set or improvement on the flop I go away.
If it looks like the pot is going to be capped preflop, I'll fold most pairs except QQ-AA I will call if there are going to be at least 5 callers with Suited connectors Ax suited and any other hand that plays well against many players. I use Ed Millers short buy in strategy some of the 1-2 NL games I play in have as low as $20 buy in I will buy in for $50.

This is just few of the things I do in these games, again I don't pretend that I am playing "best strategy" but I do hold my own and win more than I lose.
Hope this helps.

I played and dealt for a few years in Helena and sometimes it can be a real **** show. The omaha swings in these games are unreal. The cap forces you to bet more after the flop rather than smooth-calling hoping to get tricky on later streets. The cap should be raised though, I heard that they were thinking about rasing it up to 800 or so a couple of years ago, probably good since it has been prolly 20 years or so since they came up with this rule. And yes, one of the advantages to being a regular is knowing about the pot cap and your newb opponent doesn't. The dealer is specifically not allowed to announce what the rebate would be, just the bet size.

As far as other states go, I fail to see how this is worse than a state that has a limit on how much you can buy in for. I would regularly see drunks come in and donk off a grand or so $150 at a time (half of 300 i.e. heads up capped pot) in a matter of a 1/2 hour to an hour. So in Missouri these drunks would just be kicked out of the casino and can't donk off anymore money???

I now have to deal with WA laws though where they have a $40 max bet, play 2-40 spread (non-tribal casino), although the tribes can have games with max bet of $500. So what is worse? Betting 100 into a 150 dollar pot and having two callers, rebate back to 50 (MT) or having a 150 dollar pot (or larger) and only being able to bet $40 dollars into it(WA)???

Where do you deal the $100nl game? I might be interested in playing it.

I play mostly online now, but when I played live a lot I just played in the bars around here (Havre).

I used to play at Northern Winz Casino once in a while. Its 14 miles south of Havre on the Rocky Boy reservation. It has no pot cap and is open 24/7. I don't really like it there though. The few cash games I played there consisted of about 3/9 shillers, maybe more that I didn't notice. Short handed it was normal for it to be 50% or more shillers.

In the three tournaments I played there it wasn't unusual for some drunk to call for a deck change in the middle of levels, which I thought was universally not done during tournaments, but they had no problem wasting 5 minutes of 15 minute blind levels to change decks.

The dealers there are just over all incompetent. I am not sure if they have to follow any standards at all. Most of them had problems counting side pots and most of them shuffled like they were playing pinochle with their grandma. Sometimes they would only do one riffle, cut, then deal. Sometimes they would just riffle twice with no cut and deal. Even though they shuffled improperly, it seemed like it took them 3 minutes per shuffle. Their shuffles combined with all the shillers made me wonder if the game was fixed, so I just quit playing there.

Sorry for the rant, I have been wanting to complain about that place forever but had no one from Montana to complain to.

Doc and Eddies had a 10-20 game last I heard. I played with a guy, a while ago now, who told me he played that game at times and it usually ended up with the pot capped PF, everyone turns cards up and finish the deal. Just doesn't really sound like all that much fun to me. I mainly play for fun and really enjoy limit like 3-6 so much more than that.

I must say that most of the games I have played at in Montana have no shortage of loose play. Took a while to get used to it but they sure can be fun now.

Ya, I'm not sure which structure least favors the player.

I've been involved in hands myself where I 3-bet a 4 handed pot and the guy specifically asks the dealer how much it's going to be if everyone calls, and the dealer does the quick math and tells him that it'll be $55 more or $75 total if all 4 players are in.

I also heard that they where trying to raise the pot limit to $800, but it didn't get approved. The reason is because they don't want to bust the players...

Where at in SE MT are you located?

I deal at the Jackpot Nevada, used to be the Little Nevada. $100NL Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday. Every other day is a $40 max buy in, all games with a single $2 blind.

Billings, right? I go to Billings a few times a year, I'll probably come play sometime.

Do you play in any good home games?

Wesker,
Ya Billings, I know of one home game that starts at 2:00AM on the weekends. We sometimes have a good home game on Sunday nights in my basement, but thats all I know of...

the games require a much different skill level and strategy than regular no cap pot games. you do play very tight in loose games and pick on specific players in the tighter ones. since you can only get limited and specific odds on certain hands in pots you vary what you will play and how very much.

I am actually a couple of hours east of Billings in Ashland. I get into Billings every once in a while to play. I usually go to the Crystal Lounge downtown. I like that they have a 3/6 game that is always running when it is supposed to be. It is usually a fun loose game as well.

Is that Jackpot Nevada casino you deal at right off of Grand by Pickle Barrel?
Does a game go every day if so what time? Are those games all No Limit HE?

My wife just got her dealers license so I am hoping she gets a game going here sometime soon so I can get a little more live action in.

The proper adjustments seem pretty obvious, so obvious that maybe I'm missing something here?

I'm assuming this is a raked game instead of time charge.

If it caps multiway and often then you'll get the money by playing super-tight and value betting mercilessly. If it's reasonably close to being capped on the flop (maybe pot is $100) and you hit the flop hard, then you might use a suck-in bet of $50 to entce more callers then shove when it's comfortable to do so.

How tight you need to play preflop is going to depend on how aggressive the table is of course. The bigger the bets are preflop, the tighter you'll need to play.

This game actually sounds like a dream come true for a TAG like me. I bet you could beat it for better than 15bb/hr at 1-2 stakes if indeed it caps multiway and often.

Yep, thats the Little Nevada