Interesting situation came up in a PLO tournament today, and no one was quite sure what the answer is.

Blind are 400-800 but the big blind only has 700 chips. UTG wants to pot-it. How much is it?

2700. His 800 call plus the pot (1900).

Honest to God, if I'm the floor in this spot, I'm flipping a coin to decide, and telling anyone who disagrees and wants to argue his side that this debate isn't worth my time.

Then I'd go find out what the rule really is, in case next time the amount in dispute is more than a fraction of a dollar.

ETA: Upon further reflection, I agree with BoDMac. If the 700 came from any non-BB position, we'd count it as 700; just because it's 800 to limp, doesn't mean we should count a 700 all-in as a full bet.

HOWEVER...Last time I dealt a PLO tourney governed by TDA rules, I'm pretty sure that for the purposes of calculating a pre-flop raise, the SB is counted as a full bet (in this case 800). I imagine the TDA adopted this rule because most dealers on the circuit can't multiply by 3.5, but can multiply by 4. If such a rule is in place, and it's not uncommon, then I have no problem ruling the partial BB be counted as a full bet, as well.

In other words: who knows?

I'm too lazy to check, but I'm pretty sure blinds are NOT rounded up for tournament PL. However, a strong case can be made for keeping the preflop max open the same on all hands.

I'd look to the rules governing a dead SB and follow that lead.

Here, I'll do the legwork:

Despite BB only having 700, it's still 800 to call. So:

800 (call) + 800 (Raise of call) + 700 (BB) + 400 (SB) = 2700

Actually, I just re-read YTF's post, and it may be 3100 if SB is counted as a full bet.

But if you're going to count the SB as a full bet, shouldn't you do the same for the short BB?

To clarify. The TDA rules say nothing about how to count the small blind in a PL tournament. In my experience tournaments generally don;t treat the SB as being completed, while cash games do. I have no idea why they are different.

But I imagine that somewhere somebody does it differently.


Now I have a question: In a cash game we treat the SB as being completed for the purposes of calculating a pot sized raise ..... why then if there is a straddle do we not consider the blinds as being completed to the straddle for the purpose of calculating a pot sized raise? For example .... in a $5 -$10 PL game the opening pot sized raise would be to $40. If there is a $20 straddle we would say the opening pot sized raise is $80. But if we treated the blinds as completed to the straddle amount it would be $100.

Because we round up loose change. Usually the blinds combined don't add up to the betting denomination, so they're not counted as two bets.

That said, I have dealt some PLO games where the players wanted both blinds rounded up. Fine by me.

I think perhaps because (at least some places) a straddle is treated as a blind raise (with option to act), not as an extra blind. (If blinds are $5 and $10, plus $20 straddle, first min raise is to $30.)(Other places treat straddle as 3rd blind, so first min raise would be to $40.)
By this logic, I suppose, blinds only complete to BB, not to straddle amount? Just a guess.

In a 2/5 game, the 2 isn't rounded up to the blind, the total pot rounded up to the betting unit. In this case, the pot is rounded up to the nearest five.

In a 1/2 game with 5 to open, again the blinds aren't each rounded up, but the total pot is, so the max open is 15. Add a 5 straddle, and now the max open is 20, because the 3 in the pot is rounded up to 5. Unless you want to make it 25, because why not? It's really up to the players in the game.

In a 25/50/100 game, it's the same thing. The max open is 400, because the 75 in the pot is rounded up to 100. The individual blinds aren't being rounded up, it's the amount in the pot when doing the math. Add a 200 straddle, and the max open is 800. Same math.

In cash games generally it is just 4X the blind which coincides with counting the small blind as being completed. There are different ways to do it, but that is an easy way. Now when you get to a tournament the small blind is not counted as being completed for a couple of reason. One is that blinds are kind of important in a tournament whereas in cash they are unimportant (notice there is no rule covering how to counted a posted missed blind for cash games, that is because traditionally missed blinds were not posted). Another reason not to count the small blind as completed is that tournament players are not PL players and they will want to nit it up instead of making things easier to count.

Pick a rule and stick to it. I'm with the 'whatever the standard open is' crowd, mostly for the sake of simplicity.

Want it exact, then no problem (see math in other's earlier posts).

I'm pretty sure it's RROP that has the "SB doesn't round up in tournaments, does round up in cash" rule. We run PLO and PLO8 tournaments in my room, and we do not round up the SB. It was challenged once and I did the same as YTF... made a call (because who really cares) and then looked up the rule. Therefore it would be 2700, as previously stated.

Agreed. SB is not counted as a full bet in tourney and neither is the All-in for less. It is 800 to call and to raise POT would be a total bet of 2700.

On a side note, I believe the reason the SB is not counted as a full bet in tourneys is because as the blinds increase it makes a signifigant difference compared to cash games where the blinds never increase. If the blinds are at 4,000-8,000 that extra 4,000 in the pot makes a difference to those on the short stacks.

Guys it's only 2000 right? BB hasnt acted yet so UTG is first to enter the pot. The pot as it stands is 1200. 800 to call plus 1200 in the pot is 2000 PSB. You dont add what the BB or SB might eventually call.