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| Brick and Mortar Discussions of brick and mortar gambling venues |
06-16-2012, 10:18 PM
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#1
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grinder
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 400
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Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
Question about a strange hand - as a side note, I’m not in the pot.
Player A in small blind folds pre-flop and says “deal me in the next hand”. The player says he is going to his car to get a jacket. Player A leaves the casino to go the parking lot. The current hand finishes, and the dealer is getting ready to deal the hand in which player A would be the big blind. The dealer asks another fellow player to grab chips from player A stack and to post player A’s big blind. The dealer informs the table that they (the dealer) can’t post the blind (and so they are asking another player to post is). So the blind is posted (Player A still apparently in the parking lot).
The dealer deals the cards, 4 players call pre-flop (no raises). The action gets to player A’s seat. Player A is still not in the seat, and the table asks “What happens to his hand?”. The dealer says it’s still a live hand since there were no raises. The dealer deals the flop, player A is still not in the seat. A player in mid position player, Player B raises, all of us fold. As the action comes towards player A’s seat, the dealer sees player A coming toward the table. The dealer says, “You have cards”. Player A looks at his cards, looks at the action and says “re-raise”. Long story short, player A wins a big pot.
Player B is not happy, a discussion ensues about whether player A’s hand should have been live or not. Floor is called. Floor rules it’s a live hand. Is that normal in most rooms?
Last edited by marktelefono; 06-16-2012 at 10:29 PM.
Reason: spelling
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06-16-2012, 10:52 PM
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#2
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,042
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Re: Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
From reading I'm confused on how A went from small blind to big blind.
But generally in a cash game, if A isn't at the table he's dealt out and has to pay a BB next time he's back. If it's a tourney he's dealt in and pays the BB and has to fold right after the hand is finished being dealt
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06-16-2012, 10:53 PM
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#3
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old hand
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winnpeg
Posts: 1,690
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Re: Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
Player A's hand should be mucked if he's not in the seat after the hand is dealt, regardless of action.
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06-16-2012, 10:55 PM
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#4
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The Situation
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: CA and Vegas
Posts: 8,402
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Re: Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
This is an interesting situation and falls into the "gray" area for the floor making the decision that is best for the game.
There are definitely some card rooms where if you are not physically in your seat when facing action your hand is immediately killed...
The gray area comes in when a player is running back to his seat and eye contact with the dealer has been made...
Based on everyone knowing he was making a run and then based on him saying to deal him in and he'll be back and then based on him making eye contact with the dealer "as" action fell to him and he is running back to his seat...
It's okay for him to be in the hand. Had he not have been dealt in, the cards would have been completely changed anyways. SImilarly, he did pay for the hand, so all in all, there's nothing wrong here. Floor's ruling is okay imo.
Be interesting what our resident dealers have to say
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06-16-2012, 10:55 PM
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#5
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grinder
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 400
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Re: Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bando
From reading I'm confused on how A went from small blind to big blind.
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In his absence, a fellow player posted his big blind on his behalf (at the direction of the dealer).
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06-16-2012, 10:56 PM
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#6
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grinder
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Posts: 414
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I'm not sure what kind of dealers are at that casino because when your cards are dealt to you and you aren't at your seat, you hand is dead
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06-16-2012, 11:12 PM
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#7
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2006
Location: out of position
Posts: 4,295
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Re: Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
Quote:
Originally Posted by marktelefono
In his absence, a fellow player posted his big blind on his behalf (at the direction of the dealer).
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But the previous hand he was the SB, how did that happen?
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06-16-2012, 11:16 PM
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#8
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 4,035
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Re: Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
The biggest problem I see is that he wasn't in his seat to check his option. I think his hand is dead at that point.
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06-16-2012, 11:22 PM
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#9
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dealing with it, one hand at a time
Posts: 6,126
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Re: Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
Quote:
Originally Posted by marktelefono
In his absence, a fellow player posted his big blind on his behalf (at the direction of the dealer).
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You are missing the point.
TBH, I see several problems with the scenario.
If Player A was the SB on one hand, he will be the button on the next hand, not the BB. So if the player was the SB the hand before, he is now the button.
First, OPTAH. (One Player To A Hand) The player is out of the casino. No one should be touching his stack in a cash game.
Second, OPTAH. Even without a raise, there is a decision to be made as to what action the absent player would make when action arrived at that seat. A check is an action and no one else can make that decision for the absent player.
I seriously doubt this happened due to the SB/BB mix up which OP could not clear up even after it was pointed out.
No reasonably competent dealer would tell another player to dip into a players stack and then make decisions about how the hand should be played.
I realize that there are dealers who aren't all that competent but too much about this thing seems off.
There has to be more info we haven't heard. If Player B called the re raise or folded to it, that might be why the floor ruled the hand live but it seems very unlikely that this would happen in a well run room.
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06-16-2012, 11:22 PM
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#10
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centurion
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas
Posts: 112
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Re: Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamraise
But the previous hand he was the SB, how did that happen?
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Lol you are right wtf happened....maybe he was on button?
Last edited by Empowerment; 06-16-2012 at 11:24 PM.
Reason: ...
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06-16-2012, 11:29 PM
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#11
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HP JoY 2011 wienerbucket
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ...
Posts: 20,279
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Re: Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
This is a home game, right?
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06-16-2012, 11:32 PM
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#12
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dealing with it, one hand at a time
Posts: 6,126
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Re: Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfapfap
This is a home game, right?
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I thought that too but there is this line in the OP:
Quote:
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Player A leaves the casino to go the parking lot.
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Also, there is no real difference in a dealer reaching into a players stack and a dealer TELLING another player to reach into a players stack.
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06-16-2012, 11:34 PM
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#13
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HP JoY 2011 wienerbucket
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ...
Posts: 20,279
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Re: Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
Many times players present home game situations as if they happened in a casino, because they want to settle an argument about what would happen in a casino.
Because otherwise this is completely ridiculous.
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06-16-2012, 11:39 PM
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#14
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dealing with it, one hand at a time
Posts: 6,126
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Re: Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
This would not happen in a casino. No professional dealer would allow it to happen, no floor person would rule the hand live. Many if not all of the players would instantly object and call the floor if the dealer attempted it.
Player B would object as soon as the player re raised.
The scenario described in the OP would not happen in any casino that had a half way decent card room, period.
At least IMO.
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06-16-2012, 11:43 PM
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#15
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: central nj
Posts: 7,711
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Re: Player not in seat for deal, is the hand live?
Quote:
Originally Posted by marktelefono
The dealer deals the flop, player A is still not in the seat. A player in mid position player
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Assuming you mean that the mid-position player bets instead of 'player,' there's another problem here. Action was on player A once the flop was dealt. How did it get past him if he wasn't there? Please don't tell me that in his absence, the dealer checked for him. How could that have really happened with no one objecting (if they didn't object earlier for some reason)?
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