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Old 05-28-2012, 07:24 PM   #16
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

  • Your 'friend' didn't build the pot, he killed your action with the OOP shove.

  • Your 'friend' didn't shove to build the pot, he shoved to take down the pot with top pair and a flush draw thinking he either had the best hand or lots of outs if he was behind.

  • Your 'friend' had no idea what you had, when he shoved into a King high flop. All he knew was that you had raised pre-flop and that you are a tight player. I imagine you could just as easily have raised pre-flop with QQ or JJ


Assuming you didn't have the Ace of diamonds, your 'friend' was in fact a marginal favourite to win the hand after the flop. No way he would have split it with you if he had hit one of his outs, or if you had folded to his shove.

It looks very much like your 'friend' lost a flip but wants half the money after killing your action, and that makes him a douche. As Klez said earlier, you're much better off finding out your friend is a lying prick now that when it is over something much bigger as business partners.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:41 PM   #17
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

This person is not your friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrr34 View Post
I suppose that I should either have the intentions to play him
Yes. You play your buddies the same way you play anybody else: to win.

He is freerolling you. He's getting you to soft-play him, while playing aggressively against you. Then when he loses, he tries to get you to give him a refund.

This person is not your friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrr34 View Post
what do you think is the right thing for me to do?
Find better friends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrr34 View Post
He knows that I am not with cheating and building pots for each other. We never had a deal made out. Really, I think he pulls that play to make me fold, because he's a maniac and I'm a tight player. And also, because he had top pair with a draw. Then when he loses, he wants to play it like we were in it together. Tough situation for me.
Not tough at all. He got in as a favorite, and he's trying to scam you.

This person is not your friend.

This is a very easy decision: find better friends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steamraise View Post
Doubt he would have split it if he won.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10 View Post
Frankly, if he gets mad and says you aren't friends anymore, think about why you want to be a friend with a cheater.
He doesn't need him to get angry at a refusal to allow him to take advantage, in order to reconsider the benefit of being friendly with a scam artist.

This person is not his friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steamraise View Post
He's just trying to con his friend out of half the pot.
This person is not his friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donk Dunc View Post
  • Your 'friend' didn't build the pot, he killed your action with the OOP shove.

  • Your 'friend' didn't shove to build the pot, he shoved to take down the pot with top pair and a flush draw thinking he either had the best hand or lots of outs if he was behind.

  • Your 'friend' had no idea what you had, when he shoved into a King high flop. All he knew was that you had raised pre-flop and that you are a tight player. I imagine you could just as easily have raised pre-flop with QQ or JJ


Assuming you didn't have the Ace of diamonds, your 'friend' was in fact a marginal favourite to win the hand after the flop. No way he would have split it with you if he had hit one of his outs, or if you had folded to his shove.

It looks very much like your 'friend' lost a flip but wants half the money after killing your action, and that makes him a douche. As Klez said earlier, you're much better off finding out your friend is a lying prick now that when it is over something much bigger as business partners.
Yes, exactly.

Grrr34, this person is not your friend. Find better friends.
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:34 PM   #18
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

You don't want to strain your relationship with him, so best to talk about it with him and sort it out. You know the best approach and how to talk to him because you know him best.
We can't fully understand your relationship with him, we can just see this is a bad deal for you.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:05 PM   #19
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Lovelee View Post
You don't want to strain your relationship with him, so best to talk about it with him and sort it out. You know the best approach and how to talk to him because you know him best.
We can't fully understand your relationship with him, we can just see this is a bad deal for you.
This is definitely true, however pfapfap has some very valid points...

Keep in mind:
1) He tells you he shoved the flop to build the pot for you. This is obviously not true, so he has no issues lying to your face for his own benefit
2) He tells you, based upon lie in 1), that you need to give him money. This shows that he loses no sleep scamming money from a "friend".
3) Based upon 1) and 2) he appears to believe you are a sucker and can be talked into anything.

Your business venture with your friend is none of our business however make sure you are not being taken for a sucker there too. I hope this is not the case and this was just a misunderstanding.
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Old 05-29-2012, 12:36 AM   #20
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

Poker is such an interesting game, as you meet all sorts of fun people and want to make friends. However as many of those friends are looking to scam/cheat you as they are to make friends, and it's very difficult to know who is who.

"Luckily" in this case, OP, it's pretty obvious what side of things your friend is working toward.
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:00 AM   #21
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

I think most people in this thread are being way too generous. Dude is a scumbag and you should just stop being friends with him without trying to pacify him.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:13 AM   #22
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

Well at first I was thinking about how you can repair this friendship, but after rereading your post again. I am not sure you can. I think the above posts are mostly correct although some are a little over the top. You had no prior agreement. You won the pot fair and square. You must tell him so. You must also tell him you will never agree to cooperate at the poker table. You must make this clear. It will be along time before you can trust him. I think you should be concerned with any joint ventures with him. For a while I would not even sit at the same table with him. When he said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrr34 View Post
In the parking lot he says to me that he knew I had a big hand and was building a big pot for me, and that I should split it with him. And that he wasn't trying to take the pot.
I would have just laughed at him and told him of course you were trying to take the put. And I would remind him that you said no to such collusion.
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:41 AM   #23
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

if i was your friend and i won that hand

id give him his 200 back and keep the ??? profit i made if i beat my buddys pocket aces
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Old 05-29-2012, 10:09 AM   #24
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelbyl View Post

I don't believe your friend, for what it's worth - he shoved his top pair and flush draw, and even if your hand was face up that's not a terrible shove - it's pretty much exactly a flip if I am reading your description correctly (and if one of your aces isn't the diamond).

For a lot of players it WAS the right play.
Yeah, I didn't look at the hand close enough & totally missed the flush draw.


--klez
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Old 05-29-2012, 10:50 AM   #25
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

What a scumbag....dude you need to put a cease on you and his business partnership IMMEDIATELY. That guy is lying to you and trying to take advantage of you. He was not trying to build a pot to help you out, he was trying to win that pot, suck out on you and take your money. Point blank. Don't be gullible, that dude is not your friend...he is a con artist. How long have you known him? Where did you meet him? How well do you know him? Think about it. Scam artists will go above and beyond to make friends with people, earn their trust over the course of years only to be able to screw them down the road.

Don't ever compromise your own integrity for the sake of a so called friend. Any REAL friend would never ask you to do that. Cut ties with that guy or the day will come where you really, REALLY wish you had.
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:05 PM   #26
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Re: With Villains Like This...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrr34 View Post
..Thanks for the replies.

KTIN?

And yes, it's cheating. Us playing at the table together is so infrequent and us being in a hand together is so infrequent that the issue has never came up. The hands I've folded to him are hands that I would have folded to anyone else. Never the less, my intentions were to not play him.

I suppose that I should either have the intentions to play him, or just not sit at the same table as him. But I did get involved with him tonight, so maybe actions speak louder then intentions.

But back on topic, what do you think is the right thing for me to do? He knows that I am not with cheating and building pots for each other. We never had a deal made out. Really, I think he pulls that play to make me fold, because he's a maniac and I'm a tight player. And also, because he had top pair with a draw.

Then when he loses, he wants to play it like we were in it together. Tough situation for me.
It's a tough situation for you because your buddy is a bit of a scum bag in general and not much of a buddy to you specifically. I agree with your read on the situation (which I bolded), and I believe it goes even further. He also made that play with the extra safety net of trying to guilt you into splitting the pot with him if it didn't go his way. In case you can't tell, I'm not impressed with your buddy.

Also, you didn't get involved with him. He got involved with you. What are you supposed to do, open fold your AA because your buddy might call you in his straddle? Also, your so called buddy may well have driven money OUT of the pot with his shove into the field from UTG.

Make it clear to him that you are NOT down with cheating at the table and he needs to factor that into his decisions in the future.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:43 PM   #27
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

Write this guy out of your life as quickly and inexpensively as possible. This may be easy, or may be hard, depending upon the exact nature of your partnership with him, and whatever other factors might be involved. But this guy will almost certainly hurt you in the future, and possibly bankrupt you, so lose him fast.

Best wishes, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:51 PM   #28
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg (FossilMan) View Post
Write this guy out of your life as quickly and inexpensively as possible. This may be easy, or may be hard, depending upon the exact nature of your partnership with him, and whatever other factors might be involved. But this guy will almost certainly hurt you in the future, and possibly bankrupt you, so lose him fast.

Best wishes, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
I would second this. The thing that concerns me about this situation is not so much the poker, but that OP says he's in business with this guy. Huge downside here; "friend" has already demonstrated that he's willing to cheat others and OP. .
This is no joke. Time to disengage.
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:18 PM   #29
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

I've played at stakes that mattered to both of us against a good friend. It's much more fun to try to beat each other's brains in.
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:59 PM   #30
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Re: My friend attempted to collude with me and then wanted half of the pot.

I agree with what everybody who posted before me said.

But I would to add a bit of advice if something similar comes up in the future.

Don't use the punishment as a justification for not doing it. Don't they "we could be banned for doing it", just say "I don't cheat!".

The kind of person who brings up something like this will frequently think that you a secretly ok with it but are afraid of being caught.
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