..Glad to be back on 2+2.

So here goes. One of my best friends and I like to play poker together at the local card house. He has been playing poker for about a year, and we've gone to the card house together about 10 times in that year.

We have never played a pot against each other, except for one of us folding to a preflop raise from the other. I've told him that I don't want to get involved in pots with him, as he's my buddy. Soft playing, I know.

He has mentioned several times about how it would be a good idea for one of us to build a pot for the other one when he has a good hand. And each time I've told him that that is a bannable offense, and not all that productive.

Long story short (too late) today at the table it goes like this:

UTG (Buddy) straddles for $4
4 callers
Button (Me) raise to $20 with AA
SB call
BB call
Buddy call
4 others call

So there's something like $220 in the pot.

On the flop, 54kdd

My buddy shoves all in for $200
All fold,
I call $200

Buddy shows K3dd

I win the pot.

In the parking lot he says to me that he knew I had a big hand and was building a big pot for me, and that I should split it with him. And that he wasn't trying to take the pot.

Hero...?

Sorry for the unorganized post. It's really late and this situation has really thrown me. He is a great friend, and we have always been fair and generous with money between each other, as in taking turnins buying lunch, or loaning funds for a short period. We're also business partners.

KITN to him, and KITN to you if you agree.

That's cheating.
Explain to your buddy that that's cheating.

..Thanks for the replies.

KTIN?

And yes, it's cheating. Us playing at the table together is so infrequent and us being in a hand together is so infrequent that the issue has never came up. The hands I've folded to him are hands that I would have folded to anyone else. Never the less, my intentions were to not play him.

I suppose that I should either have the intentions to play him, or just not sit at the same table as him. But I did get involved with him tonight, so maybe actions speak louder then intentions.

But back on topic, what do you think is the right thing for me to do? He knows that I am not with cheating and building pots for each other. We never had a deal made out. Really, I think he pulls that play to make me fold, because he's a maniac and I'm a tight player. And also, because he had top pair with a draw.

Then when he loses, he wants to play it like we were in it together. Tough situation for me.

KITN = Kick in the nuts.

I think you hit the nail on the head. He wanted to buy the pot, and when you called, changed his tune to "Oh, I was building a pot for you blah blah blah let's split it!" Tell him no, and if he doesn't like it, then I'd stop being friends with the guy.

I actually love playing with good friends of mine. We know a lot about each others play so it becomes a giant leveling war. It's also fun to needle each after the hands.

Doubt he would have split it if he won.

An interesting oxymoron of this "game" of poker is that its a game of integrity based on deception.

Obviously you didn't like this situation and knew it was wrong the first time he mentioned it -before it ever happened. The plot thickens now because you're close freinds and business partners, I'll assume this means you're in some business togther.
Whats the future hold? Can you "trust" him to do-the-right-thing in business? Its been my expercine that lying, & cheating a *little bit* is a slippery slope to something larger.

You can "fix" this little poker cheating episode a number of ways, I'm sure you're a smart guy and will come up w/ the best fix for your circumstanse. However I'd be leary of the business and freindship relations.

For whats it worth, I'm a small business man, husband, dad, and have many friends. I'm well tuned into employee and employer mentality, balance in life & friendship, ect.

Cheaters, scammers, angle shooters, liars and thieves are long term losers in the big scheme of life.

best wishes.....

Without an agreement I wouldn't chop it with him.

Usually this situation cost both players money, especially in n/l so I wouldn't bother. The squeeze play is a lot harder to pull off(for meaningful money) that it appears. It also will get you tag as cheaters/colluders even if no one explicitly says it. Especially in smaller cities/games.

Yup, dishonest is dishonest. I'd be wary if I were business partners with someone that had a different set of ethics as I did.


Absolutely agree that he was trying to buy the pot, although it does seem that he might have been better off trying to bring a few more players along for the ride...

1. …

2. His stupid shove might have cost you the opportunity to get some value from the other players with a smaller c-bet.

3. If you split it with him, he'll do it again, regardless of what you tell him; and, he'll expect to get paid again.

4. If he's going to get pissed if you don't pay him and it ruins your friendship, you're better off finding out now rather than later when there may be something much larger at stake. In business or in life.

5. Tell him not to do you any more favors at the poker table.


--klez

Just say, "look, I told you I wasn't going to play that way. To make sure you're clear on that, I'm not paying you because we didn't have a deal."

Frankly, if he gets mad and says you aren't friends anymore, think about why you want to be a friend with a cheater.

as klez said, his shove killed your action. Also if he wanted to "build" a pot for you he should have reraised preflop when he had his option instead of flatting OOP.

Conceivable that he shoved with top pair and a flush draw because he thought it was the right play, and he's trying to save face?

That's brutal - with friends like that who needs enemies?

I don't believe your friend, for what it's worth - he shoved his top pair and flush draw, and even if your hand was face up that's not a terrible shove - it's pretty much exactly a flip if I am reading your description correctly (and if one of your aces isn't the diamond).

With that hand, he's either a) being dishonest about his shove or b) a clueless player. Probably both? Anyhow he killed your action on a hand he was about even to win. I don't think that's a huge favour to you!

For a lot of players it WAS the right play.

He's just trying to con his friend out of half the pot.