Obviously late registration should be much, much shorter. Especially in a satellite where there are huge ICM advantages to registering as late as possible.

But for however long late registration is open, there shouldn't even be a money bubble, because the TD should not be calculating or publishing the prize pool information until registration has closed.

Four seats were guaranteed, and since it was a satellite to get into a $250 tournament it was widely known that the payout formula was to award one seat for every five entries. Remaining monies would be paid to the next player who did not qualify for a seat.

Frankly, I've never seen a satellite where the payout structure was a secret before or during the tournament. We did not require the TD to post this info. It was a simple calculation that the players could make themselves, ever changing as the number of entries changed.

The problem with closing registration on the fly is the unhappy player who just drove an hour to get here to play and showed up two minutes after you closed it but before the officially posted time. Or the guy who wants to reenter (if rentries are allowed) who says he would have played differently if he hadnt thought he could reenter for 8 levels.

And the problem with leaving it open is that players who've been there nearly three hours and have succeeded in getting "into the money" must be told that they in fact, have not gotten into the money....at least not in the same sense as everyone else who's ever been in the money anywhere at any time in the history of poker. That's a problem too isn't it?

But the players are not yet "in the money" because there should be no official prize pool announced until registration is closed and you know how many people entered the tournament and thus how many prizes should be awarded. If the TD actually announced the prize pool and told everyone that they were in the money then they should close registration, but it sounds like you're saying players were just making an informal estimate.

The problem is you and the other players don't understand the concept of "in the money".

[QUOTE=NickMPK;44067701]But the players are not yet "in the money" because there should be no official prize pool announced until registration is closed and you know how many people entered the tournament and thus how many prizes should be awarded. If the TD actually announced the prize pool and told everyone that they were in the money then they should close registration, but it sounds like you're saying players were just making an informal estimate.[/QUOTE

The scoreboard keeps a running count of how many have entered the tourney. Most scoreboards I've seen do. So from there, even us satty players can figger out what the dadgum payouts were gonna bee based on the formula included in their own tournament rules.

Its not an informal estimate. Its based on their own rules. He made no announcement that we were in the money. In theory, we could have played a little quicker and played down to a single winner before the end of the registration period. And at that point, ten more people could have entered, therefore not even assuring the guy with all the chips is "in the money". Now do I get it?

Anyway, I'm over it. I just hope it doesn't become a trend in poker. That's right.

I know there is a big difference between playing live and online, but...

There are several online sites that end late registration at a set time OR when 1/2 the field is in the money, whichever comes first. I never imagined the rule would be needed live, but it seems to be.

Is it really that long since you played online?

You can figure out what the payouts should be based on the given data, but you're figuring out what they'll be assuming that there are no further entries. That assumption is incorrect. You're not in the money yet when you reach 5-handed because it's not a freezeout.

But I can see why you'd be upset. I think that running late reg so long is dumb, and they should end that policy in the future, for exactly the reason that it makes people more upset than it's worth. But if it's already in place, I don't think the house should end the late registration before its scheduled time because you felt like you won when you didn't.

If you played down to a single person before registration closed, you have not yet "won" because you haven't defeated the players who have yet to enter the tournament.

If there are five players currently playing, and four players waiting to register, the tournament is not down to five players, it is down to nine players, only five of whom will make the money. Now, you don't yet know that the tournament is down to nine players and not five, but that's because you never know what the final field size will be until registration closes. That's why you wait until is closes to announce the field size and thus the prize pool.

Also, your argument about how you were "in the money" and then could end up "out of the money" just shows you don't understand the rules of the tournament.

It's like playing a rebuy tournament, and saying "I won a pot, and that guy was all in! I took all his chips! Now, you're telling me he can have more chips!?! What does all in mean!"

The format for the tournament seems badly planned out, I'll admit. Probably out of the thousands of poker tournament every day around the world, there isn't more than a couple a year that would have Late Registration open while some people were in the money. But, if people can still enter, you're not the "final 5" or the "final 4" or the "final 1" until registration was up; just like you can't win a rebuy tournament until the rebuys are done.

I think we're communicating Nick. Just saying I'd prefer not to see this becoming the norm. In fact, I'm hoping this is a once-in-a-lifetime thing for me. But maybe it'll be the next big thing in poker. Meantime, I'll just be trying to figure out how to adjust my play once we get down to five and may or may not gain players over the next ten minutes.

There's a huge flaw in your argument though. Let's say 5 are supposed to get paid and you're now down to 3. Do you really think it's fair to have people hanging out by the window waiting until the last second to buy in when they will be guaranteed a money spot? What if you got knocked out leaving 3 other people left but still tome to register? If it's me and someone else tries to sign up, I physically block the window and stop them from doing so.

Yes, it is fair. Those are the rules of the tournament. Just like it is fair you started 110 minutes earlier, and could have 20x more chips, and they'll sit down with 5BB chips.

Also, if you're going to get physical and block the window in a poker room, you should stop playing poker and have someone help you with your rage issues.

Technically, due to a line at the cashier's window, the two late players did not get their tickets punched before the end of level 8. Their entries did not show up on the scoreboard. However, they had told the TD they wanted to play. Actually, that part of it didn't bother me, because I consider it a discretionary situation for the TD. The other guys at the table however were angry about it.

This is a tourney they run routinely during their special series, so the fact that this happened really couldn't have come as a surprise to them, and it wasn't a huge surprise to me either. I just think its an awful flaw in the format, and is really not in the spirit of proper and expected tournament competition. So you feel shorted when it happens.

They won't be guaranteed a money spot, because if this happened, a whole bunch of other people would also decide to enter the tournament. If you physically block this, you will likely be removed from the casino by security.

It's an absolutely terrible structure for a tournament. But once the casino has implemented and publicized that structure, and especially once the tournament has started, what would be unfair would be to change the structure in the middle. The people buying in later are just following the rules, and honestly probably playing better tournament strategy than the people who bought in at the start.

Attitudes like that are what is, wrong with most tournament directors... Ohhhhh the rule says this, never mind what the spirit of the rule is or what is fair or makes the most sense. I don't have the cerebral capabilities to do what is right, I can only do what it says. Never mind the part at the bottom about the TD's using their discretion. Hey, I know you think you came in 4th, but you have to wait because if someone else signs up you get bumped down... yeah, that makes total sense. :banghead:

You can't be "in the money" if rebuys/late registration are still allowed, unless somehow you play down to a winner during this time, but that would probably never happen unless a casino was very dead/final players to bust out were stupid/drunk or something like that.

Incidentally, except for their $x,xxx tournaments, which have registration for the duration of day one, ALL of their tournaments have late registration for eight levels. Even the ones with structures so fast that they may be over by the end of level 8. Arrrgghhhh. Pinheads!!!!

You didn't come in 4th, because more people may sign up. Ending the tournament would be a very silly way to lose that discretion. It would piss off people trying to sign up at the last second who have done nothing wrong. And you can avoid the situation by not busting "4th" and/or rebuying yourself.

What are you on about? You willingly registered for this hypothetical tournament knowing what the rules were, right? Or are you imagining that this information was withheld from you?

It's like complaining that the blind structure of a turbo you signed up for is too fast and that the TD should step in and make it a deepstack. The structure of this tournament is unattractive — that is why we wouldn't register for it.

Here's the Poker Tournament Directors Association Rules:

http://www.pokertda.com/custom_posts...ial-tda-rules/

I think the first rule applies here.

1: Floor Decisions

Floorpeople must consider the best interest of the game and fairness as top priorities in the decision-making process. Unusual circumstances can on occasion dictate that decisions in the interest of fairness take priority over the technical rules. The floorperson’s decision is final.

Guess this is what happens when you play specialty tournaments like satellites otherwise they probably would've announced prizepool after late registration.

I think its important to know if this is a tournament that allows re-entry.

If re-entry is not allowed then this is an incredibly unfair structure and penalizes players who get knocked out with 4 or fewer places left but registration still open. Even though the exact payout structure is unknown the fact that 4 seats are guaranteed is known.

It would be equally unfair to close registration at an arbitrary point when people have waited to buy in. Or are arriving late but not there yet.

It gets worse though if there are 10 guaranteed seats. And play goes hand for hand with registration still open....

Also, what happens if a player gets knocked out in <6th before registration closes? Do they have to wait around to find out if they have won anything?