According to Ray's view, anything posted can be considered trolling. That said, he's a brutal ******* of a Mod and it's just ponderous. His over-the-top and relentless moderation in the B&M forum is the stuff of legend and he's rendered himself as quite a joke.

Why is his nonsense continually tolerated?

I think Rapini is doing a good job. It seems there's a desire to clean B&M to a more professional face, and in that regard he's been performing admirably.

The question seems to be whether B&M can be both professional and fun. I say yes, because casinos themselves are fun. I spend a great deal of time in them, and I have a blast. I feel the forum should reflect this.

I feel that if we make some things MORE clean and professional, we leave room for more fun. I'd like to see the casino threads be actively modded, with pertinent information edited in the OP to be up to date as people add information to the threads. But then I'd like to see them open to chat. Conversations come and go, so leave the active conversation in the main thread, and move the rest to an archive thread. Once a new conversation starts after a lull, move the previous to the end of the archive thread.

That way, the crucial information is presented professionally, and the current conversation among the regulars is allowed to flow, providing a representation of the tone of the room, information on current events and news, and a sense of community. The threads are then kept tidy, and with a lower overall post count, they're more inviting to new players.

Regarding the +1 issue... I think it's clear when it's coming from a place of support of a well reasoned opinion, and when it's just aping something unessential. "I agree" and "+1" mean the same thing. Some contextual awareness seems warranted here.

I don't see many TRs here, but I wish they'd return. The casino OPs are the bricks and mortar. The chats are the players weaving through. Limiting this forum to casino info (with open chat in the threads), ruling discussions, and TRs would make this a clean, informative, and fun forum.

Is that a lot of work? You bet it is. If the advertising and cross promotion of this site is doing anything more than covering the cost of hosting, then the moderator of its proudest public face should be on payroll.

I'm glad to see this open discussion, and I hope it continues for a while. These are all just ideas and opinions. Nobody is right; nobody is wrong.

Thanks for hearing us out.

-p.

I don't know who Ray is, but I don't think your nonsense should be tolerated in this thread. This thread is for discussion of the forum rules and the way it is moderated; the mods are looking for suggestions, not tirades about how badly treated you were. Most people are probably seeing this as a positive step, and we don't need you derailing the thread.

On another topic, I fear that eyes scan past the stickies. Maybe after the discussion here stalls a bit, we can remove the sticky and let it float among the front page topics, hopefully get a few more opinions.

Even in forums in which I participate every day, I can sometimes go days without noticing a change in the stickies. I doubt I'm the only one for whom this is true.

+1, I had no idea this thread existed until I saw the LLNL thread, which I only noticed because it started with capital letters.

I also agree with most of Lovesantiques's post but don't think there's a real need for an AC subforum (looks pretty covered by the casino threads and a couple of others we have now) or an entire chat subforum.

Cross-posted from my original post in this forum:

I very much enjoy the B&M forum but lately I've found myself frustrated that the majority of the first page is dominated by threads for specific cities or casinos. I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling that 95% of these threads are of little to no use of me and keep the more universal threads that I find more pertinent buried.

Would it be possible to open a sub-forum that would contain all location-based threads to clean up the main forum? If someone is coming here to get information on Caesar's AC or what games are spread in Toronto, having that information in a plainly-labelled subforum will make it easier to find, and will focus the main forum on more general topics.

Thoughts?

This is also a good idea.

I think that so far, what we're suggesting is:

B&M main forum - general information/question threads (is this an angle? Did the floor make the correct ruling? etc)
Casino information subforum - information threads based on casino
Casino chat subforum - conversation threads based on casino

I would say +1, but apparently that is not allowed.

Anyway, i'm not going to air dirty laundry or specifics, but I have been the victim of inconsistent "heavy handed" moderation for very petty things that I see other people do all the time but dont get moderated. I reply to him and the response is "report the thread". I'm not going to rat out someone violating some percieved rule because I get moderated. I just dont like this ticky tack moderation stuff that goes on here in this particular (B&M) forum specifically. I thought maybe it was just me, but apparently not.

Also, I dont remember if it was him or not, but a while back (year or 2 ago) I got asked to change my avatar because it had a hot chick in it and someone said it was not appropriate. Apparently not everyone got the memo. My point is, be consistent or dont do it at all.

This guy here? He's right.

I'd be fine with this as long as we still allow TRs in the "Main" Forum. I don't think TRs should be relegated to the middle of a Topic that happens to cover the Property where a given TR occurs.

I read 2+2 for gambling info, hence I don't bother reading the "other topics" forums, and as such I didn't even know the general AC thread existed until it was linked in some other AC thread recently, two years after the thread's creation. Since the vast majority of 2+2ers visit Atlantic City for the purposes of poker, and AC is presumably still the second largest US poker destination, how does a thread about Atlantic City constitute "nothing to do with poker?"

I understand the point of a separate Las Vegas Lifestyle board as those posts in B&M could make things unwieldy, but the AC general thread is one lousy thread. One extra thread is not going to clutter the B&M forum. I find it strange that a moderator would be so adamant about keeping one lousy thread about a big poker destination in a different forum despite many objections to the contrary.

I don't have an opinion either way but I will say that the current format makes it difficult to follow discussion some of the lower trafficked poker rooms. I may be in Miami soon and looked for info about Miami's poker rooms (haven't been there since the laws changed and limits were raised), and most of the info was in one big unwieldy thread about Florida poker that had something like 2200 posts, many of which are about poker rooms that are nowhere near where I'll be. (After locking a recent Florida thread, Rapini redirected the poster to two very short threads and the 2200 post thread.)

I think I got through about 1/4th of that Florida thread before realizing I was wasting my time and it would be easier to just ask whatever questions I have closer to my trip, even though those questions may be redundant and already answered in the thread. I've read internet discussion groups for something like 17 years and have been reading 2+2 for about 13 so it goes against my nature to ask redundant questions without having found info on my own via the search features or reading old threads, but a 2200 post thread for a large state is very unwieldy.

NO! Different forums need different guidelines. Some, such as B&M and the strategy forums, are supposed to be more polite and informative than, say, BVG or BB4L, etc.

The Marketplace has its own needs. ATF is also a different (fun, but different) sort of forum. I can't see even trying to run them all the same, or wanting to.

Lee

I agree completely. +1

I disagree completely. You obviously never saw how the afformentioned Mod ran things! Mis-ran is probably a more apt term.

I don't know why you feel this way, Zappa, but I think that you are way off base here.

Lee

There may not be. I put that up for consideration as a concept. Trying to figure out how to best consolidate all of the B&M threads/subforums/etc. in 2+2, which I see as being a plus if accomplished.

I like the idea of not having the main B&M forum being "cluttered up" with threads and posts that don't really have usefull poker content. Thus, creating a "chat" subforum allows for low-content, but still fun and friendly and sometimes even informative posts and discussions.

Having the AC thread become its own subforum might not be the best idea, but would give it a home with good visibility to the B&M crowd without "cluttering" the main forum.

Lee

I am glad this thread has legs. Even if nothing we talk about gets implemented, I think merely getting together to chat about it is good for the B&M community. It's getting us all on the same team.

Bah! If we're all on the same "team," the threads will just all devolve into

+1

what he said

ditto

A good team is comprised of members with diverse strengths and opinions who respect and support each other while offering constructive debate and intellectual criticism.

Wow.... all of those self-vacations have you visualizing a place that isn't here!


Besides which, I'm having a problem melding your statements here, with your earlier comment in another thread about only being able to take modding seriously for a week.

I just noticed a new "Like" thingie (not really a button so much as a link) at the bottom right of each post. When clicked on, a bar shows up with a heart and says "You like this." It is then possible to "unlike" the post.

I just noticed this for the first time this morning. Anybody know when it showed up? Can the "likes" be seen by others? Shouldn't there be a "dislike" button as well?

Lee
Wondering

Noticed it too. It prob appeared during this morning's scheduled server restarts.

Interestingly (perhaps), this may soon become slightly less of an issue. In the mobile app for which I'm one of the beta testers (for iPhone; droid version to follow), each forum has three tabs: one for regular threads, another for stickies, and a third for announcements. I know that probably sounds like it would make them even easier to miss than they now are, but based on a week of playing with this app my opinion is that it makes them more prominent and that they'll be looked at more often.

I haven't formally weighed in here on the +1 issue yet, so... +1 to those who favor more relaxed moderation of lower-content posts. (I don't favor any rigid standard, either allowing or disallowing specific constructions. A "+1", written exactly that way, can be quite useful in certain threads [as has been explained by others], but other times it's just stupid and I hope that even if Rapini does decide to relax his stance he'll keep taking action against mindless meme dropping for its own sake.)

Plus One

I really cant see the big deal about being able to agree with someone with a simple +1, anyone can ramble on about this and that then say I agree.

Just dont go there if you dont like the way things are done, everyone stay out of there and let him mod himself, I'm sure there are other subforums for you to ask about B&M without being spanked.

We are all to old to be led around like thread puppets

Really agree with this. Would love to see separation of "B&M" from "Regional B&M" or something similar.

Also agree with Pot Odds RAC that trip reports would go in the main B&M forum. The idea is to separate items of widespread interest from items of strictly regional interest.