Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations

12-28-2007 , 12:58 AM
As I understand the MSS in Tunica, the button has the first priority in straddling, then the cut-off, hijack, etc. down to UTG, who has the lowest priority.

I have not seen the MSS used in Biloxi. The more traditional UTG straddle is used.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
12-28-2007 , 01:45 AM
Yeah, when I played in Tunica at the Gold Strike they allowed straddles from ANY position.

Preflop action would then start to the immediate left of the straddler. This led people acting out of the turn very frequently preflop.

As expected, the button was a very popular place to straddle from. In fact I considered doing this myself but never did.

As others have pointed out, I think straddling the button or in late position in general is +EV to good players.

Like someone just said, if two players both want to straddle, the player in later position is given priority and he's the one who gets to.

I played at the Beau Rivage in Biloxi this past weekend and they only allowed straddling UTG, but allowed it from anywhere in their PLO games.

It can also be useful in identifing the people who came to gamble and play loose. In Tunica we had a guy at the table who straddled (or tried to) almost every hand for a few orbits.

Regardless, when the button straddles it makes life hell on the regular blinds. You have act first preflop, in of course addition to all the other rounds.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
12-28-2007 , 01:47 AM
Quote:
I played at the Beau Rivage in Biloxi this past weekend and they only allowed straddling UTG, but allowed it from anywhere in their PLO games.
After giving it some thought and reading the comments here I think this is the best way to go.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
12-28-2007 , 02:18 AM
I rather enjoyed playing with the mss when I was in Tunica. Took a little bit to get used to, but especially in the small PLO games it was great. One thing that I wondered though was who gets the priority on the straddles? I assumed it was the button, but I had 2 situations that make me wonder if this is the case:
1) middle position guy missed both blinds was allowed to post via a straddle, no dead small blind or anything. I understand doing this if next to the blinds, but he wasn't.
2) I had won the previous pot. While I was stacking the chips and getting stuff straight I threw out the straddle (I was button) and the dealer threw it back and said CO had already posted the straddle. No cards had been dealt yet -- I was confused but just went with it.
Thanks for the clarification!
--Sax
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
12-28-2007 , 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR
After giving it some thought and reading the comments here I think this is the best way to go.
I agree. I also failed to mention, in my experience, there's usually one person straddling many positions if there's a frequent straddle. Meaning zero fun for anyone to his left.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
12-28-2007 , 03:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman007
I rather enjoyed playing with the mss when I was in Tunica. Took a little bit to get used to, but especially in the small PLO games it was great. One thing that I wondered though was who gets the priority on the straddles? I assumed it was the button, but I had 2 situations that make me wonder if this is the case:
1) middle position guy missed both blinds was allowed to post via a straddle, no dead small blind or anything. I understand doing this if next to the blinds, but he wasn't.
2) I had won the previous pot. While I was stacking the chips and getting stuff straight I threw out the straddle (I was button) and the dealer threw it back and said CO had already posted the straddle. No cards had been dealt yet -- I was confused but just went with it.
Thanks for the clarification!
--Sax
Priority starts on the button and goes backwards towards the blinds.

Dealer was wrong, assuming no cards had been dealt.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
12-28-2007 , 04:56 AM
So what's the strategy if you're playing with MSS? Should you always straddle your button 9 handed?
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-06-2008 , 05:14 AM
The kill at Lucky Chances is basically a Mississippi straddle, except that you can't do it OTB. tbh I really don't see why it would be +EV - sure, you have position preflop, but you're also forcing yourself to put in 2xbb with two random cards which is pretty meh. Why are you guys so worried about how it affects the games? It definitely does create action and I don't get why it's bad for the fish.

(I could well be wrong, so plz explain cause atm I don't get it)
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-06-2008 , 05:36 AM
When you straddle, you are not in the hand based on the merit of your starting hand. So it is harder for people to figure out what you have in the subsequent betting rounds since your range is so wide. That coupled with position against other players can be a pretty good advantage. Also, I find that a lot of times people have tendency to not give you credit for a hand because you were in the straddle. Bad players don't seem to understand that you are just as likely to be dealt aces whether you straddled or not.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-06-2008 , 12:48 PM
Doing a straddle on button seems pointless. The major point of a straddle is buy position (seems to me), but with button you already have preflop position.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-06-2008 , 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky
Doing a straddle on button seems pointless. The major point of a straddle is buy position (seems to me), but with button you already have preflop position.

MAJOR contradictions in your above statement. You cannot buy position with an UTG straddle, your only inflating the size of the pot. The straddler will remain out of position in a big-pot relative to their hand strength in most situations.

On the button however your doing the same thing, inflating the size of the pot, which gives the expert player a significant edge since he or she has position on the whole table. The button is king, a player that uses the button as a weapon is at a significant advantage.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-06-2008 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR
After giving it some thought and reading the comments here I think this is the best way to go.
RR - If you spread Badugi it plays very well with a Mississippi Straddle just like PLO does. I agree it should only be reserved for these two games.

PS - this whole thread was done a few months back with Matt Flynn's comments totally dominating the conversation, it was a good one - search the archives!
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-06-2008 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youtalkfunny
The MSS destroys that incentive. Only dopes limp in up front vs the late-position MSS.

Fortunately, there are still plenty of dopes out there. For now.

An expert player out of position can take advantage of the straddler's tendencies to raise their button by limping in and re-raising on the back end - creating a huge pot and binding players to their meager holdings. Limping in is a strategic move when used properly.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-06-2008 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat Mack
I like this answer a lot. There's a period of time on the learning curve where the mss can cause a lot of confusion--then it's good for poker. But if it's irritating the blinds, then it has to go. I think playing with the rock is a much better idea; modify the rock so it has to sleep until it is on, and it wakes up a NL game.
jmo
WTF? MSS creates more action in a game; the correct strategy with a rock in a game is to tighten up significantly. You have it backwards.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-06-2008 , 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by *TT*
RR - If you spread Badugi it plays very well with a Mississippi Straddle just like PLO does. I agree it should only be reserved for these two games.
Agreed, Badugi is a game that benefits big time from MSS on the button.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-06-2008 , 08:25 PM
I get that position is important in NLHE at all but I'm still not really convinced that buying it for one street (when your position is still pretty good to begin with!) offsets the downsides of doubling the steaks and halving stacks (which is bad for a good player, since deeper stacks give him more opportunity to outplay his opponents) and forcing him to put in 2xbb with two random cards.

p.s. Badugi can *****. I mean wtf, it's not even a poker game!

p.p.s. Isn't position even more valuable in PLO than in NLHE? If so, why would the MSS be better in PLO than NLHE?
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-06-2008 , 08:43 PM
You all should try playing the straddle rule that Caesars Indiana has in effect. In no limit games players can straddle for any amount in any position but the blinds. Same priority rules as the Mississippi Straddle, but UTG has first option AFTER the button, then counter clockwise from button.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-07-2008 , 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
I get that position is important in NLHE at all but I'm still not really convinced that buying it for one street (when your position is still pretty good to begin with!) offsets the downsides of doubling the steaks and halving stacks (which is bad for a good player, since deeper stacks give him more opportunity to outplay his opponents) and forcing him to put in 2xbb with two random cards.

p.s. Badugi can *****. I mean wtf, it's not even a poker game!

p.p.s. Isn't position even more valuable in PLO than in NLHE? If so, why would the MSS be better in PLO than NLHE?
Well if you are playing in a MSS game and don't straddle your button the guy to your right will straddle making you go first preflop.

Part of the reason it makes PLO games better is you are able to build a bigger pot when it is your button. I haven't observed enough NLHE with MSS to know what the impact is there.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-07-2008 , 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Scott
If they are going to go broke lets hope it happens sooner than later.

Sooner = less rake to the casino and more for us.
Presumably you also think the Commerce Casino should spread $3-5 NLHE with a minimum buyin of $5000 or something, so the sharks can clean the fish out faster.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-07-2008 , 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR
Well if you are playing in a MSS game and don't straddle your button the guy to your right will straddle making you go first preflop.
Oh, I didn't know that was part of it. I thought the Lucky Chances kill was an MSS but that just means preflop action bypasses you the first time around and you then act after the blinds. That does change things.

That is kinda funny if you have to straddle your button just to keep some other dunce from making what is possibly a -EV straddle in CO because he's worried about the HJ doing it if he doesn't. It's like backwards poker!
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-07-2008 , 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
That is kinda funny if you have to straddle your button just to keep some other dunce from making what is possibly a -EV straddle in CO because he's worried about the HJ doing it if he doesn't. It's like action poker!
FYP. Search the archives for Matt Flynn's great posts on this topic, you will love it!
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-07-2008 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
That is kinda funny if you have to straddle your button just to keep some other dunce from making what is possibly a -EV straddle in CO because he's worried about the HJ doing it if he doesn't. It's like backwards poker!
If you're convinced that a button straddle is -EV, why wouldn't you let the HJ straddle? I realize that position is important, but you're only giving it up preflop. You're still the button for the much more important rounds, especially in big-bet games. You have someone else posting extra money on your button, and if you like your cards you can even try to isolate. (Granted, unlikely.) Seems like a good deal, no?, or is posting extra money blind really a small price to pay for position only on the first betting round.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-08-2008 , 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKQJ10
If you're convinced that a button straddle is -EV, why wouldn't you let the HJ straddle?
Cause if I then become first or second to act preflop, on the button, that ****ing sucks a TON. It probably sucks less than straddling the button myself.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-08-2008 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Cause if I then have to act first preflop on my button, that ****ing sucks a TON.

goofy - think deeper about this. Its a small investment to act first pre-flop, but your also acting last, the straddler has the option to raise pre-flop. But when you have a huge hand you have the button, which means initiative, and the pot is already large. A player of your skill level should want this initiative, a small investment to win a big pot in position!
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote
01-08-2008 , 05:28 PM
I see a lot of awkward spots coming up where you want to limp hands like suited connectors and small pairs or whatever and hopefully have a bunch of people come in behind you and be able to play them in position postflop, but you're not that excited if anyone jacks it up because your implied odds suck more than usual given that it's a straddled pot. When you get big hands that want action, a raise to say 8xbb (which I imagine is pretty reasonable given the 2xbb straddle in front of you) will probably fold out most of the field behind you.

Perhaps the correct response to this is to iso the straddler with a huge range and tighten up a bit if a lot of people start calling?

Seems like it has the same downsides associated with it that acting UTG in a regular game does, except that you know you'll have position postflop.
Mississippi straddle: share your thoughts and observations Quote

      
m