Live MTT, I raise UTG get two callers behind and also the SB and BB call, 5 handed to the flop.

After the flop the SB and BB check, I start working out my bet size; as I'm getting my bet together I hear the dealer say "Checked around, turn card..." I look up and see him burn and get ready to deal the turn, I shout for him to stop and he instantly does, he burnt but didn't deal the turn.

I told the dealer that I hadn't checked, and he said "Your hand was covering your cards" (probably correct in that my hand had come down to start putting my bet together).

I said that I was surprised he had forgotten I was in the hand given that I was the pre-flop raiser; I also pointed out that as the two players behind had checked then it was easy to restart the action on me; yes I have extra info that they were checking but I was clearly betting anyway and it was dealer (and player) error that allowed the situation to happen, why should I get punished? A couple of players not in the hand told the dealer that it was obvious action was on me and I was getting a bet ready.

The dealer called the floor, the floor man listened and then asked the dealer if he had burned, the dealer said he had burned but not turned, and the floorman said "If the dealer had enough time to burn, then you had enough time to act" (?????).

The floorman ruled that the hand was checked around and we would see a turn.


Is there a standard ruling in this situation?

For me the standard ruling is obviously that you should be allowed to bet the flop. Even if the dealer had opened the turn, he should shuffle the card back in the deck and rewind to let the round of betting finish properly otf. Ridiculous decision imo.

Sounds good to me.

1. Don't hide your cards.
2. Pay attention.

1. Maybe; I don't think I was hiding them, but my hands probably covered them when I started getting my bet ready.

2. I did pay attention - I watched as the SB and BB checked and then I started focusing on my bet size. Before I knew it the dealer was about to deal the turn.

according to TDA rules, you should have retained your right to act. Here is rule:

and here is the rule defining substantial action. Basically, it's two players acting if one puts chips in the pot (therefore NOT 2 checks) or 3 players acting with any combo of checks, and putting chips in pot.

so you caught it in time. If there had been one more player to check after you, then you were too late.

Either the players behind you didn't see your cards or they saw what they thought was a check.
You didn't see the 2 players behind you check or the dealer rap the table and you finally noticed after the dealer burned.

Pay better attention. Don't hide your cards.

I'm calling the dealer rapping the table and bringing the turn two more actions.

This is sort of like saying ... I did pay attention I waited for the light to turn green then I closed my eyes and drove through the intersection.

Two players checked after you. Had you been paying attention you would have seen when the first player checked and spoken up.

I don't really buy this. If you're contemplating a bet, you may be counting your stack, or calculating the size compared to pot size, or whatever, and if you are looking at your chips it's easy to miss someone tapping the table without saying check. then the next guy immediately taps. It could take less than a couple of seconds. I don't think it's really fair to infer the player did something wrong.

There was no allegation, allusion to, or confusion that anybody thought I checked. Simply, they thought I wasn't in the hand.

Why would I see the two players behind me check? The action was on me, so I was putting my bet together.

SB: I check
BB: I check
OP: I bet

Now take your time figuring how much.

And if you aren't sure if you are going to bet

"Time"

This is laughable. They both insta-checked - had I been looking straight at them I probably wouldn't have even got the words out on time.

The action was with me; the SB and BB were staring intently at me, the SB had flopped a flush and was desperate for me to bet; they were paying attention, the dealer and the first player behind me weren't.

Ok so now you're saying everybody that bets has to verbally declare it?

You should be able to do both. In fact paying attention to the other players not only will help you avoid these problems but it will help you get additional information which can improve your game.

If you are going to sit and do a Fourier analysis to select the optimal bet size, yes.

Or, you can do it your way. See what happened.

So every player who hasnt decided what they are going to do the instant action moves to them is expected to say time? That would be tedious as all get out. Player 1 bets; "time!" From player 2. Player 2 acts, then immediately "time!" From player 3, and so on all around the table?

The players who acted out of turn should be warned to pay more attention. That's the cause of the problem. Along with the dealer not paying attention. So while the action of last resort is the guy skipped recognizing it to protect his action, the problem lies with the other players and the dealer.

IMO creating expectations that someone has to either immediately declare bet or time the instant action gets on them is a bad idea.

The time between the SB checking and me stopping the dealer dealing the turn was about 5 seconds.

No, just the ones who intend to not pay attention.


Along with the player who admits that "I don't think I was hiding them [cards], but my hands probably covered them"

I would agree. But if you aren't able to pay attention to the game while you think about your bet ..... then IT'S A GREAT IDEA.

I don't understand people who say things like this. The action was on you, and so your senses farted out from under you? Get that checked out.

OP, the reality is that poker is becoming a faster game. It is being driven by trying to squeeze out more profit from players that are extremely reluctant to pay anything more than they have to, no matter how much better the service might be. At the same time, more players have internet experience and want more hands dealt. The result is that you're going to have less time to think and react. Dealers are going to have less time to make a judgement.

In a perfect world, the dealer would have known the action was on you no matter what you did. We don't live in that world. Once a situation occurs, you're going to be in a position where the people judging the situation are the ones that you're taking money out of their pocket by slowing things down. Don't be surprised if they are going to be biased against you.

Your only protection is to make it as easy as possible for them to make a right judgement. Get your hands off your cards. Put a chip or card holder on them and keep your hands away so everyone can see them. Be obvious that you're counting chips to make a bet. And yes, if you're going to sit and think, ask for time.

Dealer should be paying better attention to the action imo. Too often, they're simply going through the motions. How many time a session do you hear the dealer ask, "Check around?" before proceeding to burn and turn the next street.

That said, I always have cards in hand but clearly visible. I also am quick to speak up if action has gone out of turn.

Bad ruling.

To be fair, if he's looking down at his chips and the two knuckleheads quickly check out of turn by doing a very quiet pinky wiggle and the dealer doesn't rap the table before burning and turning, this is definitely in the realm of possibility without the OP having much of a legit chance to stop things. I agree that a player has to protect his action. It doesn't sound like OP was staring at a hot waitress or watching a play happen during a football game. If his attention is on the flop, the pot, or his own chips, I can see it happening. In this case, the OP stopped the dealer as soon as he noticed when the dealer said "checked around", and apparently did it in such a timely fashion that he actually stopped the turn from being put out prematurely. Then he got screwed by a bad floor call.

This is a very good point.

From a cash game standpoint it's close to a 50/50 ruling imo. OP did his best, which is what B&M always asks for. He managed to say "STOP" before the next card was dealt and only 2 players had checked behind, which we all know can happen very quickly.

The problem is OP, once the dealer says you were hiding your cards the floor no longer sees it as an injustice. There's no room for the benefit of the doubt (Did these two players act out of turn? Where they not paying attention and acted too fast?). You now have two mistakes going against you, you hid your cards and you didn't protect your action.

That makes it an easy ruling for the floor. If your actions caused the mistake, you aren't going to get the call.

Thats the best answer