Wow. Corrupt NY politics. An Orange County casino would bring untold millions in business to the area. Wow. Wow. Wow. I'm so glad I left Rockland 10 years ago.

If you can please keep me posted what they say on this thread would be great.I hear you Monroe would of been a huge huge score and this was just an awful day.I travel to Parx almost 2 hrs and Monroe is 25 mins from me. Im a 1-2 nl player and could play 2-5 if needed.I I rent in Poughkeepsie and Schenedcty can be an option if I moved back there but still over an hr drive and that place will probably only be good summertime.Any word on a new big casino opening in Philly called Live??

I think Meadowlands is 5 years away

I'm not sure I 100% buy this argument. Sure casinos would love it if they could force everyone to play slots, but the fact is that there are thousands of poker players who drive 2-3 hours to Parx, Foxwoods, Borgata etc and they will continue to drive right past your casino if you don't offer poker. I can understand why AC casinos don't want to go to war with Borgatas room over a relatively small revenue pie but in downstate NY you can have a virtual monopoly on local poker players without spending a ton on comps etc.

I understand it's not as big a revenue generator as slots or table games but 5-6% of revenue is a lot higher than 0% of revenue and it's more than any restaurant or gift shop will bring in.

Also, poker players need to eat and they also drink at the bar at night. But most importantly (something they don't think about) is there are tons of recreational players who, although poker is their main game, love to play other pit games and slots too (not to mention their wifes and gf's who play slots).

This and the other factor is that due to capacity dynamics, as long as the poker room makes money it is actually worth more incremental business than the 5 banks of slot machines it displaces.....I fully understand slots are more profitable IN A VACUUM, however, that's not the point here. I.e., if you pull out 50 slot machines to make room for poker, your slot players will just play other machines in your casino (especially a destination casino) since very very very rarely is every slot machine in you casino occupied. Unlike slots, if you pull out poker, you will get 0% of the poker players money because your poker capacity is 0.

The only times not having poker makes sense is if you are either really tight on floor space (you estimate slots to run at > 80% capacity) or if there is a real risk that poker won't at least break even. It seems with any casino in upstate NY neither should be an issue, but I guess the powers that be have their reasons.

How many poker table do you think Empire could manage?

Are we all certain there will be no poker? I wish someone got word theirs a possibility but I think highly unlikely since there floor plans are really broken down and poker no where in the breakdown!!!!!!

Link to floorplans?

http://www.gaming.ny.gov/pdf/Redacte...C6a_final2.pdf
link to floor plans

Local poker players? Think about where this place is going to be ... there is not a substantial local population period ... much less local poker players. This place is going to live and die by day trippers and if I was planning that casino poker would be low on my priorities. They are going to need to heavily subsidize bus travel from the city and when your spending money busing people up to the joint do you really want them sitting in a poker room?

Even if they have a poker room I doubt they would be able to keep games through the night most of the time.

[QUOTE=psandman;45578226]Local poker players? Think about where this place is going to be ... there is not a substantial local population period ... much less local poker players. This place is going to live and die by day trippers and if I was planning that casino poker would be low on my priorities. They are going to need to heavily subsidize bus travel from the city and when your spending money busing people up to the joint do you really want them sitting in a poker room?

Even if they have a poker room I doubt they would be able to keep games through the night most of the time.[/

Thats the problem its going to be more like an atlantis tourist attraction ,then a real casino!!!!!

This argument ignores the fact that slot machines are not all the same. Pulling out 50 slot machines doesn't mean your players will just play the remaining slot machines. It affects the mix of your machines both in terms of the games available and the denominations of play. This is going to impact the amount of play. And those extra 50 slot machines .... have much less labor costs associated with them.

likewise it is absurd to say that without poker will get zero percent of [poker players money. That argument would be true only if all poker players only play poker. In fact you will still get poker players who decide that the convenience of this casino without poker makes it a better trip then traveling further to play poker. But without poker you will still get people who consider themselves poker players who will come to play slots and table games. And you have zero risk that your big slots player decides to spend most of his time this trip in the poker room.

This appears to be a preliminary plan which was used to sell the proposal to the committee. Now that all is said and done they can still add a poker room and since they are planning to be a "we have it all" destination resort, I am sure once they add the right executives someone's gonna say "hey, why aren't we including poker?"




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Didn't know this thread existed probably better I didn't or I would've got everyone's hopes up even more. I work at MD live and at our last company wide meeting the CEO said if we got New York it would've been an 80 (eighty) table poker room. Was really pulling for this one

At Borgata, poker was 3.3% of casino win for November. That was by far the highest in AC, and a month with a big tournament series. Bally's was 2%, Harrah's 1%, Taj 1.6%, Tropicana .8% and Golden Nugget .3%.

If you're laying out a new casino, you're probably looking at poker as 1% of your potential revenue, maybe 2% if it's a huge success. And then you're looking at the cost of operating and staffing the room vs. what you could make with slots or blackjack in the same space. Average win per machine in AC is $6000-$11000. (Ignoring the Taj's under-$5k, and noting that the planners surely have better numbers than blunt averages at their disposal.) Dividing the poker win by tables, the average poker table brings in less than the average slot machine, though not dramatically less. But the space for a dozen poker tables could probably easily hold 100 slot machines.

2150 slot machines is a little less than Harrah's & Tropicana. 61 table games is less than every AC casino.

If their plan included a poker room, it's not likely it would be a rival to either Borgata or Foxwoods in size. And with a hotel so small, there probably wouldn't be a lot of rooms for poker players.

You could write the exact same thing about Foxwoods. I mean local as in the general downstate ny region for whom this would be the closest poker room, which is millions of people.

There's really a floor plan here.

New plans include poker room!

http://www.recordonline.com/article/...NEWS/150719751

thats great. It would have been greater if Live was given an opportunity being more south closer to nyc but it is what it is. thanks for the update

excellent

2 hours from NYC might be tough, Parks is 1.5 hrs and Borgata is 2.5, Monticello area is desolate

As I said earlier, there's more to nyc area than just Manhattan, if you combine westchester, rockland, dutchess, orange, etc counties in ny with parts of north jersey you're talking about millions of people, and the desolation you mention also means it's a easier traffic wise than driving to say, AC on a Friday night.

exactly. it's about an hour drive for me.

It will be about 35 minutes for me, I am very happy they announced a poker room.