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The jamest CONTAINMENT thread. The jamest CONTAINMENT thread.

07-16-2012 , 11:10 PM
If your sitting at a table with a lot of preflop action/betting a shortstack can definitely have an advantage even with 60bb to 100bb range and you don't have to push just get enough in to make them overpay for seeing the flop.
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07-16-2012 , 11:58 PM
Personally I don't like playinG short because I lose The ability To bluff. You also trap yourself into calls based on pot odds.
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07-17-2012 , 12:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyLikeABird
I was always under the impression that getting all in much more frequently=bigger swings. Maybe I misunderstood that but I have defintly read that a bit on this site.

Spino1i: maybe you didn't read my post clearly but I never said you couldn't make money shortstacking. I said that op's nitty wait for premiums and magically get paid off style he seemed to be suggesting would likely fail to make any money at those stakes. Also since I was talking about a typical solid push fold ss strategy, I obviously wasn't talking about playing with a 50bb stack, more like 20-30bb.

Anyway carry on.
Bigger stack swings, lower $ swings. The exception would be if your opponents were somehow so weak-tight that you could just print money by taking down pots without any serious risk of getting stacked for a deep stack. But that tendency would have to be really extreme, almost to the point of only existing in theory. Just my educated guess.

Also, greater edge means less "swinginess" (bc it's harder to go below zero if your mean is positive) but doesn't affect variance, strictly speaking.
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07-17-2012 , 01:06 AM
I'm using swinginess to mean probability of a literal downswing. In a sense winning $1 an hour when you usually win $50 is a "downswing", but not the kind people generally mean.
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07-17-2012 , 08:19 AM
Where I play in Oklahoma, you can get a hand immediately without posting. I actually think its strange when somewhere else and they ask me to post, but just because I'm not used to it.
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07-17-2012 , 09:01 AM
Players should def post. how is this even a question.
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07-17-2012 , 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masaraksh
Players should def post. how is this even a question.
Because as some have already posted, many rooms do NOT require you to post. You have to make up missed blinds, of course.

Pretty sure Tampa Hard Rock and Derby Lane in Central Florida don't.
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07-17-2012 , 02:21 PM
If you can pack up and move anywhere, you should 100% be looking at LA or Florida. The games are so much softer in LA than Vegas that it's not even funny.
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07-17-2012 , 03:04 PM
i dont really think its a tough choice at all. if you have the luxury to be able to pick up and move to vegas, then you should do it. if you decide on AC your just limiting yourself to the borgata playing with the same people(im talking 5/10, 2/5 can be found a few other places on busier nights). I havent played much 5/10 out in LV, but its tough game at the borgata during the week, very nitty.
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07-17-2012 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuaDxAceZ
i dont really think its a tough choice at all. if you have the luxury to be able to pick up and move to vegas, then you should do it. if you decide on AC your just limiting yourself to the borgata playing with the same people(im talking 5/10, 2/5 can be found a few other places on busier nights). I havent played much 5/10 out in LV, but its tough game at the borgata during the week, very nitty.
I second this. Why choose AC when the pool is so much smaller than in LV. Add the fact that in LV you are within driving distance to LA and other Cali card rooms, and the answer gets even easier to give.

Factoring in Sands, Harrah's Philly, PARX, Delaware Park, etc. might blur things a bit, but each of those places is a minimum 30 minutes away from one another and more to AC that being in Vegas where you are a 10 minute walk or a 5 minute cab ride away from what you need, makes it a no-brainer. Plus, during the WSOP, you get fish galore coming out.

If you can spot Brad Booth at a table, pick a new table - one filled with tourists.
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07-17-2012 , 04:13 PM
I don't see how a new player is any different than a new table. Not everyone is posting when a new table starts so a new player should be allowed to play without posting.
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07-17-2012 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzz12586
I don't see how a new player is any different than a new table. Not everyone is posting when a new table starts so a new player should be allowed to play without posting.
Exactly
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07-17-2012 , 07:18 PM
I buy in 60BB in the 2/5.

I will generally play with up to $1500-2000 or 300-400BB.

I will almost always quit after being up to 300-400BB.

If I take a few beats or just don't feel like continuing I will leave up or down as (little) as 60 BB.

This has worked for me for months.

If I had a larger bankroll I would feel more comfortable playing deep stack and could probably win more money. Right now the lower variance steadier winrate is easier to manage as I have no other source of income.

When I (rarely) take shots at 5/10 I generally buy in 70-80BB.
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07-17-2012 , 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masaraksh
Players should def post.
Why? What difference does it make to the players already at the table?
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07-17-2012 , 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tringlomane
You don't have to post at ... Horseshoe Tunica either.
At Horseshoe Tunica, you don't have to post in 4/8 LHE or 1/3 NLHE, but you do in 2/5 NLHE.
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07-17-2012 , 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace
Why? What difference does it make to the players already at the table?
Because someone could sit down in the cutoff and play 6 hands for free and then leave. It's very rare, but I have seen people do it. I think no post is good for the min blind games, but not the big blind games.
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07-17-2012 , 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KL03
Because someone could sit down in the cutoff and play 6 hands for free and then leave. It's very rare, but I have seen people do it. I think no post is good for the min blind games, but not the big blind games.
And how does that hurt you?
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07-17-2012 , 09:05 PM
When i started playing every place I played seem to require you to post to come in. Then it seemed many got away from that. The rationale I alwyas heard was "Its good for the game because it gets people into the cation faster"..... but now it seems to me to have the opposite effect as many players choose to wait for the button to pass so they can maximize their free hands.

My preference is that of you have a room that isn;t filled with nits ..... let them come in for free. If you have lots of nits ... make them post becaus ethey aren't going to get in the action faster anyway.
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07-17-2012 , 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace
And how does that hurt you?
It almost has to, right? Fundamental Theorem of Poker. If someone else is getting something for free you have to pay for in a zero sum game, it has to be hurting you.

I think?
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07-17-2012 , 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
My preference is that of you have a room that isn;t filled with nits ..... let them come in for free. If you have lots of nits ... make them post becaus ethey aren't going to get in the action faster anyway.
from what i have witnessed, the rooms that allow no posting are either controlled by nits or will soon be filled with nits (assuming there are other poker rooms in the area that make you post).

What happens when someone requests a table change? Do they get to come in for free again?

The Venetian doesn't make people post as far as i know. My friend keeps threatening to go there one day and get on every list and just play all his free hands and quit.
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07-17-2012 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3fiveofdiamonds
from what i have witnessed, the rooms that allow no posting are either controlled by nits or will soon be filled with nits (assuming there are other poker rooms in the area that make you post).
Well in Vegas almost every room allows no posting.

Quote:
What happens when someone requests a table change? Do they get to come in for free again?
yes. This isn't really a problem. Generally people aren't table changing to get free hands. Maybe you have one or two nits that do this .... but its not the sort of thing that happens constantly. I used to work in a room that allowed you to change seats without posting .... you could move from the Big Blind to the Cut-off. While it did mean that many players waited to the most advantageous time to move ...... we did not have a problem with a person constantly moving to avoid ever posting a blind (management told us they would address it it if it occurred but I never saw it occur).

Quote:
The Venetian doesn't make people post as far as i know. My friend keeps threatening to go there one day and get on every list and just play all his free hands and quit.
I think he will find it is more hassle than benefit. And of course his doing it isn;t really a problem .... This is only the sort of thing that would be a problem if everybody started doing.
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07-17-2012 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace
And how does that hurt you?
Okay, I think I got it.

For the sake of the math, assume position and skill have no value and each player has exactly the same chance of winning each hand regardless of position.

Let's say the blinds are 1 and 2. You're playing 5-handed. Each player's EV of the blinds for each hand is (1+2)/5 = 0.6, but each player pays 3 for every 5 hands, so the -EV of posting blinds is -3/5 = -0.6 per hand, so it evens out.

This player comes in and makes the game 6-handed for 3 hands (can't come in on the button), plays his CO, HJ, and UTG hands and leaves. During that time, he never pays a blind. Now his EV of the blinds each hand is (1+2)/6 = 0.5. But the -EV of posting the blinds is 0 because he never does it. So his net blind EV is +0.5 per hand.

So it holds that for the other players their EV of the blinds is (1+2)/6 because there are 6 players each hand while he's there, but once he leaves, the EV of posting the blinds is -3/5 = -0.6 because he's gone again. So for those that post blinds while he's there then play after he's gone, they got one less hand of EV of the blinds of 0.5.

So let's look at the hands for the person in the BB when he sits. Hand 1, you post 2, and have 1/6 chance of winning it and the SB, so your EV is (-2+1/6*3) = -1.5. Your SB hand you post 1, so your EV is (-1+1/6*3) = -0.5. Then in your BTN hand your EV of the blinds is 1/6*3 = +0.5. Then the guy leaves. Your CO hand your EV of the blinds is 3/5 = 0.6 again and same for the HJ, but then you are in the BB again instead of getting an UTG hand. So for that round, that players total EV relative to the blinds is -1.5-0.5+.5+.6+.6 = -0.3 for that 5-hand round.

So in a 6-handed 1/2 game, we are talking about -30 cents over 5 hands for the 5 wronged players and +$1.50 for the guy that dodged the blinds.

I hope I got this right.
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07-18-2012 , 12:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
Well in Vegas almost every room allows no posting.

yes. This isn't really a problem. Generally people aren't table changing to get free hands. Maybe you have one or two nits that do this .... but its not the sort of thing that happens constantly. I used to work in a room that allowed you to change seats without posting .... you could move from the Big Blind to the Cut-off. While it did mean that many players waited to the most advantageous time to move ...... we did not have a problem with a person constantly moving to avoid ever posting a blind (management told us they would address it it if it occurred but I never saw it occur).



I think he will find it is more hassle than benefit. And of course his doing it isn;t really a problem .... This is only the sort of thing that would be a problem if everybody started doing.
I play limit where this would be quite the advantage and people would definitely change tables repeatedly to avoid posting the blinds if they could get away with it.

My friend wasn't planning on hit and running the Venetian free hands for profit (although he would be favored to make one), more so just to highlight how it can be angled, especially when there are omaha and limit hold em games going.

If I go broke and become homeless, the Venetian is where I will be hanging out, getting free fiji waters and never posting a blind. Its always good to have a backup plan
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07-18-2012 , 12:09 PM
I still think Borgata has the softest 2/5 in the country, or rather, softest $5 BB level in the country. Plenty of clueless regs who are constantly dumping chips on the table. There are very few great players there. Remember that reg =/ good

If you wanna play 5/10 there, it's primarily solid regs, but there are still quite a few huge donators. On weekends, it's good, on weekdays it's sometimes not worth playing.

When I played in Las Vegas this summer, I didn't think the games were incredibly soft.
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07-18-2012 , 12:54 PM
The Borgata on the weekends has about 80% of the 2-5 and 5-10 that all the vegas cardrooms have combined, so yes the field is smaller but not much, and playing poker in vegas for a living the last 2 years i can tell you it is rather annoying playing at the wynn and they only have 2 (2-5) games, aria 3 (2-5) etc... people that only go to vegas during the series dont realize that there arent as many games as you would think, and at the borgata at least table changing is much easier than having to get in a car, call up the other vegas casino and get put 3rd on a list with only 2 games going all together you just burned 45min-1.5hr of not playing between traveling and waiting...so Vegas might be a better choice, but its not a no brainer, also give revel a full year, aria too started off slow, revel will pick by summer 2013 it will be a decent room
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