I track my results in my own spreadsheet, however no I don't include expenses. The reason is that expenses such as fuel, food etc are not an hourly expense but rather a fixed cost per session (maybe with the exception of coffee). I can play 30 mins or I can play 16 hours and the fuel cost as an example will be no different between the two. Might be an idea for me to add a fixed session cost, been meaning for a while to add in some session data.

Emerald Suites isn't horrible. Its the only extended stay place that I would stay. It's not great but not horrible. There are some apartments that will do a 3 month lease. You could also look into subletting

Well nothing's wrong with shortstacking, assuming you want to win and assuming you're good at short stack strategy.

Of course, the obvious problem is that if you double or quadruple up, you can't shortstack at that table any more.

Not sure if this is in the right forum, but I am also looking into extended stay places, as I have only stayed in cheap strip hotels for 1-2 weeks at a time. Does anyone have any info on the Onyx Apartments just North of the Airport? I've searched the marketplace and LLV but found nothing....I don't think there is any centralized management. I really cannot be bothered to deal with a realtor just to let somewhere for 1-2 months. Any links for short condo lets or extended hotels like emerald? Any information on Platinum?

Thanks

Lets assume for OP sake that this short stack method works as decribed.

You sit w/ minimum chips in a $5/10 or $10/20 game, and then after sometime of sitting there not playing any hands you look down at KK and shove all-in and get a caller and collect the pot. What have you really done? Thats a serious question and only part of your flawed thinking, I really want to know what you think you've done?

Did you just "make" $300 bucks, or maybe a $600 double up, of course you did. Big whoopie doo, you got lucky one time.

Can you do this tomorrow aginst the same players? No.

Can you do this on a regular basis in the same card? No.

Is it feasable to do this daily in different card rooms and have a realistic expectation to "win" your miracle double up each time? No.

Did learn anything about the game of poker? No.

Does this one time double up make you a good player? No.

Does this double up make you a better player? No.

Does, or can, this short stack cash game play make you a long term winner at the game? No.

Lets assume you're the very best short stack player in the world and its the strategy you use because you're the best at it, do you really think you can make money playing this way? Honestly?
And if you honestly *think* you can make money doing this you're wrong. Sure, you may think you can, but in reality it just doesn't work.

....

So, everytime I hear short stack cash game players tell me there strategy and explain to me how good it works, I ask the question of "what have you really done?"

That said, I do realize there are certain times and specific opportunties to use this play style, and it can work well. My point is that its not exclusivley a long term winning strategy for cash game play.

^^^TBH, I don't think you don't understand SS strategy. You can win, but you need enough rooms close by to be able to table hop frequently. However, it is much harder to be a winning SS player than a full stack player.

Giving the OP the benefit of the doubt thats he's NEVER played $5/10 or larger games, it only makes sence that you truly don't know how simple & un-sophisticated ( some may even call them simple dummies) these low/medium stakes players really are. There all just sitting around waiting to pay off a short stack, after all...they've never seen this before!

I agree that Emerald Suites isn't that bad. I stayed at the LV Blvd location for about a month last year when my housing arrangement for the WSOP fell through. Pretty clean for the most part. Never had any problems with anyone.

Think I paid <$200 a week, but it appears the "Manager's Special" now is $209/week.

Is that for a studio?

What are the fitness options like?

Thanks

You can join Las Vegas Athletic Club for $5 initiation [current promo] plus $25 per month [$31 to start]. Very nice facilities and I believe seven locations, generally in residential neighborhoods.

South strip.

Great info thanks.....do you think they'll have rolling 1 month contacts?

Thanks

Basically everything written there is wrong.

Go to the LVL forum, your questions have been asked and answered 100 times. There's even a housing megathread.

You aren't giving 5/10 and up players nearly en ough credit. Your strategy is transparent and even the weakest 5/10 regs will likely see through it. With your strategy you are hoping that there will be one or more very loose players who will be there to pay you off and this just isn't the reality, certainly not enough so to make good consistant profits.

A good short stacking strategy for a 5/10 game would involve developing a resteal range to exploit regulars' wide opening ranges in lp and will be based on a push fold system. Imo though, you are much better off playing full stacked and learning to play solid poker. Your winrate cieling will be much higher and much lower variance.

Yup. You'll find everything you need over there OP.

Absolutely nothing's wrong with it as long as you have enough of an edge to compensate you for your time (i.e., for the opportunity cost of not playing another game where you're not short stacked). Even highly skilled opponents in most high-stakes games are going to be optimizing their play for deeper stacked weak players. They possibly know how to exploit your preflop strategy (unless you're very good at shortstacking) but to do so would cost them more against the deeper players.

Mmmmmno. Perhaps you're intending that term to mean something else, like "edge" or "probability of losing a stack, independent of the size of the stack"?

If you're not bankrolled to play deep against such players, then your edge against them without shortstacking is zero. Also, in my experience at lower stakes, a good many tables have stronger deep stacked players and several very short stacked weaker players, which of course makes sense. Buying in deep just to exploit a negative edge against the good players is suicidal.

No doubt. It's all about how much you're willing to invest in a training budget. If you were seeking to learn to play deeper stacks, you'd probably want to move way down in stakes. But short-stacking at higher stakes could also help you build bankroll to take on learning to beat those stakes more confidently.

It's a little paternalistic to tell someone what's a good use of their time. If they like the winrate versus the reduced effort, reduced risk, and reduced intellectual engagement of playing that way, it's just a matter of personal taste.

How on earth could it be harder to learn to play one or two streets well than to learn to play three or four well?

You're sort of thinking about poker results all wrong, though. Yes, sometimes you double up, sometimes you get coolered, etc. But do you play a strategy against opponents that gives you an edge per hand (or per orbit) against your opponents? If your EV in hands is positive, the results will take care of themselves.

Originally Posted by venice10
However, it is much harder to be a winning SS player than a full stack player.



This is a stretch.......a misunderstanding.

I took this to mean its more difficult to be a winning player using a short stack, versus a deeper stack because you're "short". As a short stack you only have limted opportunites, less opportunties than a deeper stack, and therefore you need to make the most of the few you do get. As a short stack you really only have one major play, shove.

In the major Casino's I play a lot of respected and knowledgeable mid-stakes players refer to these guys as SSS, short stack shover. And make no mistake, everyone with a 1/2 a brain know who the SSS are.

Venice can speak for himself, but I don't think he meant a short stack player is a better player than someone who can play all streets as the hand develops.

A player that only uses a small portion of the chips (money) of another player that uses a large amount of chips needs to win more times, and more often, just to match the chips "won" from the deeper stacked player playing more hands -having more opportuntiy to see more flops and then play through some complex hands as the develop and go all the way to the river.

If a short stack doubles from $600 to $1,200, he's done after that. The chances of him now doubling that $1,200 into more is very slim...he doesn't know how to play the game and is afraid to play, scared to risk the miracle double -which is why he's a SSS to begin with.

Alternatively a player who starts with $1,500 and gets a double up to $3,000, now has the opportuntiy to continue to play. Because this player is comfortable playing the game of poker. Maybe this player will win more in this session, maybe not. Regardless he's already won more than a SSS even has the chance to.

There is a time & place to play short, and there is a time & place to play a limited number of hands and then leave the table. However my point is that using the hit-n-run and many times combined w/ SSS stratedgy, exclusively, doesn't work.
If you have a limited bankroll and want to try a higher level, by all means try it. You have start somehow, by limiting your exposure in the higher games you're taking a shot is a good idea....you just can't use this style long term and expect to b a winner.

Well you are exactly right, in fact shortstackers have an inherent advantage over deepstack players. One deeper stack player can push another out of the sidepot with cards still to come while you are already all in. This can give you an advantage.

Being able to play a shortstack is a skill just like playing a deepstack and someone people's playing styles arent suited to it.

Uhh you can shortstack 50/100 live plo and make a ton of money. You give 5/10 and up players way too much credit.

Btw I am talking about buying in for 50 big blinds. Theres not much you can do with 10 or 20 big blinds, your options are a little too limited.

This is correct. A short stacker, if successful, must have a better idea of people's calling and folding ranges along with a good push/fold strategy. They will be better at this aspect than most deeper stack players. As many pointed out, the amount a short stacker can win in one pot is less, so they need a greater edge when they do have an all in situation. With the rake live, flips are a losing situation for a short stacker. You can't be good and short stack, you have to be great to make it work. Far fewer can achieve that level than can achieve that level playing deeper. I also believe nearly everyone that good has the ability to beat NLHE for more playing deeper

Personally, I found playing as a short stacker online for 1 month improved my game considerably. I practiced some skills that I ordinarily didn't use much, so it made me a better all around player when facing push/fold situations deeper.

While extremely rare, a short stacker has one additional advantage if they can play a deep game. A considerable portion of my winnings came from when I doubled up and was prepping to leave the table. People just wildly underestimated that I had adjusted my game for stack sizes and assumed that if I was willing to stack off with TPWK at 30BB, I'd do the same thing with 100BB. There was one table where in the space of 10 hands, I went from 30BB to 300BB. People were just calling me down with anything, not realizing that I knew how much better hand values had to be to put in 150BB than 30BB.