Do you really see these as comparable? Do you not understand that you ARE responsible for paying attention to the action and protecting your hand?

I guess it does make sense to avoid angle-shooting. I'm not an angle-shoter; so I don't really think like them. Usually a player or the dealer says something quickly when people start folding out of turn so never really thought about it. I really need to read the rule book, I guess.

But anyway back to the OP, I guess keep this rule in the back of the mind for future reference(I know I will). But ultimately remember to protect your hand until you're awarded the pot or you muck.

In the room I work in, seat would not be able to raise but his hand would be live. His options would be call or fold. He should have stopped anyone from folding behind him if he intended to act.

OP admitted he was not paying attention to anyone but the raiser, he screwed up big time.

Dealer screwed up also for not keeping track of the action and failing to stop players from folding OOT.

However, room rules trump everything above if the room rule allows Seat 9 to raise.

It would be a horrible rule but rooms rules are what counts.

I'm guessing that the floor allowed the raise to stand and OP folded to it.

How about telling us what happened OP?

Easily? They're both super deep, over 200 bb's.

Yeah, the guy can have 88, I guess. He might also have 99 and be hoping Op thinks like you.

Wouldn't you feel like a fool to sit there all day and run your stack up from 4-500 to 1200, only to turboflush it with a gutsy hero call?

This. I don't see how Seat 9 can be allowed to do anything but call or fold after allowing people to behind him to fold without letting the table know he had yet to act. Whether or not OP showed his cards or not is irrelevant (although he should still get a KITN for not protecting his hand).

I've done this sitting in Seat 1 and not realizing Seat 9 was in the hand due to the mammoth size of the dealer. Thankfully it was as very small pot...but it was a good lesson and now if I do decide to show my cards (which is rare) I never do it until the pot has been pushed to me. Yes it might make me look like a silly nit. I don't care; you can laugh at me all you want I'll be too busy counting my chips.

Thank you all for your insights & contributions to this thread. The correct ruling should have been, straight from the WSOP site below under Betting and Raising.

http://www.wsop.com/poker-rules/index.asp

Betting and Raising

Players must call “time” in order to retain their right to act. Should they not make the call before three or more subsequent players have acted on their hand, they will lose the right to act.

In other words his hand should be killed period! Even if they granted him to keep his hand live, no way he should be able to raise all-in as TechPoker described perfectly!
BTW this happened exactly as I’m telling it, no embellishments. I’m shocked no one on this forum was there to corroborate the events.

To finish the story; While floor is on the way over, seat 9 says aloud “I did nothing wrong“ I then tell him he’s an angle shooting p.o.s.! {figure it out )} Floor comes, I’m heated, dealer starts to explain & says he attempted to warn me that seat 9 still had a hand. True, sure did… way after the fact that three people folded & he collected their cards & mucked them! Basically he puts it on me. Seat 9 just flat out lied by saying he didn’t know my hand & hadn’t seen my hand, attempting to continue his angle shoot. No one else said a word even though everyone seen the hand. (That’s fine, they let the 3 principals explain it to floor.)

I said to the floor supervisor if that’s true then why are the other players hand in the muck? This includes seat 6 the preflop raiser, who’s RIGHT NEXT TO ME. I then asked the dealer why would he not have his attention on seat 9 the very next person in the hand waiting for him to act if he had live cards & had yet to act, his answer “oh, because seat 1 folded out of turn” WTH? Yeah, seats 4 & 6 too. Doesn’t even make any sense, since his attention should be focused on seat 9 then seats 1, 4, & 6 & ultimately me.

Then I turn to seat 9, with venom in my voice, who btw hadn’t even made a bet of over $40. in the cpl hrs I played with him, now all of a sudden he shoves $1400 all-in! I asked why he is flat out lying when he knows he’s seen my hand. Remember he looked me right at my hand, my surprised face, THEN moved all-in. In fact, everyone knew my hand, nevertheless the person to my left!

With everyone looking on:

Me “Sir, what’s my hand?”

Him “I don’t know your hand sir, I haven’t seen it”

Me “You angle shooting lying p.o.s., what’s my hand sir?”

Him “I don’t know your hand sir, I haven’t seen it”

I’m boiling…

Floor lady decides seat 9 all-in action is legit. WTF? Now I’m outraged, a bit loud & the whole poker floor is looking over, some come over, as does the Shift Manager. The lady supervisor, dealer & I are all attempting to explain, I say seat 9 hand should be dead period, shift manager telling me I’m screaming & calm down. I’m in disbelief about the whole thing, he keeps trying to tone me down so that the rest of the floor is not disturbed. Hello, my friend the cat’s out of the bag already. Seat 9 still lying about not seeing my hand, which is a 100% lie. I ask him again how he’s now moved all-in but hasn’t bet more than $40 since he’s been moved to the table 90 minutes ago. He has no answer. Shift Manager ultimately tells me, lady supervisor cannot & therefore nor will he kill seat 9 hand. I’m in the twilight zone now.

Me “I can’t believe this bleep! You know what, I know you don’t got bleep! I call!”

Seat 9 looks sick to his stomach, everyone’s in shock that I called… about 25 people circled around us

2 3 9 turn card 7, river………… K

Seat 9 turns up AKos, everyone’s in shock, all you hear is “OMG” I can feel my temperature rise 25 degrees, he then turns to me and says;

“What do you have sir?”

I stood up pointed said “You p.o.s. you know what I had” ready to go ballistic, security guy grabbed me from behind, I’m loudly talking to Shift Manager saying now do you see he’s full of bleep & did see my hand & angle shooted & you supported that nonsense! I argue for 10 mins to no avail. Seat 9 is given the $2700+ pot, all are in shock at what just happened.

I requested the video, they said I couldn’t request it. I was told only PA Gaming Commission can request the video. I’m now in the process of appealing to PA Gaming Commission, to be continued…

1. Next time, don't try to get a soul read on one opponent when there are 3 other players in the pot.

2. By calling the bet, you accepted the decision. If no river K, you going to the GC? Don't think so.

3. What do you want done? How much money you want?

First WSOP and cash game rules are not the same !

Second You will NEVER get ANYWHERE by swearing and caring on like a raving idiot when you call for a decision !

Where I work the 9 seat would have been allowed to call not raise!

Cash game rules vary from room to room and have MANY differences to tournament rules.

For all the people saying that Seat 9 can only call or fold, that would apply only to the flop right? On the turn he can push?

The problem is twofold. First issue is whether or not the guy's hand is dead. Parx ruled it isn't dead. My guess is that most rooms wouldn't kill it either. And you will be open to a push on the turn at the very least and possibly a push on the flop.

The second issue is that you live in the real world. Once a decision is made you are going to have to live with it. Getting all worked up over it sounds like a bad idea. Especially in the moment. So now, you are faced with a decision. You know in your heart the old man saw your hand - and he is under no obligation to help you out by saying he did see it because the hand is still in play. He has pushed and you have a tough choice. You make the correct decision under duress. Congratulations.

The fact is you lost the hand because he sucked out on you. You took the opportunity to call down a bluff that had escalated the pot by a huge amount because you made a mental error and showed your hand with another player still in the hand. Yes, the dealer also made a mistake or two but the dealer isn't risking any money on the hand and it is up to you to protect your hand.

Instead of trying to learn something from this experience you are trying to drum up support so that you can feel justified in trying to take two bites out of the same apple. If it was me, I would look at why I am turning over my TT after the hand is over and before the pot was shipped to me. And maybe even after the pot was shipped to me.

You made a nice call and got screwed by the deck. Learn how to take a beat. And learn how to protect your hand.

correct returns to normal action on the turn

Do you yet understand that the error was yours?

I mean, that's a lot of yelling at people and getting angry over something that was 100% your fault.

That seems like a really complicated situation, and you've set yourself up for a lot of aggravation. Plus, it can't really feel very good to yell and curse at strangers, can it?

Next time, pay attention. If you fail to pay attention, don't flip your lid at other people, because the error was yours.

Yours.

You made this mistake. You had complete control over how to handle it. You seem to have chosen the worst path possible.

And hey, that's okay. We all make mistakes. But the lesson here is (1) pay attention, and (2) don't flip your lid at the poker table when you fail to do so.

This is YOUR FAULT.

YOURS.

Until you understand and accept this, you run the risk of having this happen all over again.

Interesting. Especially since I see something similar several times a week while playing 1/2 or 1/3 at various casinos in Vegas. Seat 1, unaware that seat 10 has cards, folds to action by player in seat 8 or 9. Seat 1's fold is followed in quick succession by seats 2,3,4, etc., each acting on a fold by the person to their immediate right. Not once have I ever seen seat 10's hand declared to be dead. In fact, not once has the possibility ever even been raised or discussed.

At the intro stakes, we tend to be rather forgiving, because most people have no idea what's going on anyway.

At the higher stakes, we assume people know what they're doing. Except for the whales. They also get a very long leash.

Don't ever show your cards until pot is pushed to you. Mistakes happen when players fold out of turn, its your job to protect yourself

the options for the old guy should have been relegated to call or fold (for the flop only), after three people mucked and he didn't protect his action. on the turn, all options are open again.

also, the dealer should have been calling attention to the fact that it was seat 9's action and attempting to stop the other people from mucking. that doesn't change the fact, that the OP, as a player in the pot with money in the middle, needs to pay closer attention to all the players involved in the hand and be more careful when exposing your cards.