Parx casino $2-5 game, 4:30a Super Bowl Sunday, 6-handed play 3 players from broken table getting ready to make it a full table. I’m in seat 7 in sb, stack $1200. with pocket 10’s, button seat 6 stack $600 makes it $25, I smooth call in position, gray haired old guy seat 9 to right of dealer stack $1400 limp calls as does seats 1 & 4.

Flop 2 3 9 rainbow, everyone checks to preflop raiser 6 to my right, he cb $75, I announced raise, grab tower of red chips, dealer announces raise to table $180 total. At this point I’m not concerned with anyone other than raiser so I turn slightly toward him to get a read on him when dealer announces my raise total, he looks dejected, cool.

I turn back toward dealer I see seat 1 fold & dealer collecting his cards, ditto seat 4, ditto seat 6 original raiser, I then courtesy show seat 6 my 10’s then the entire table, the dealer then shoots his hands out & says no it’s still a player with a hand! Say what, I’m confused.

Look to my left seat 9 gray haired old guy looks right at my 10’s, looks at my face surprised face, I turn my 10’s back over face down not that it mattered, everyone seen the hand, even the 3 players waiting to fill the table. Dealer now looks toward gray haired old guy seat 9 for his action; he grabs his entire $1400 stack, looks me right in the face & announces “all-in!” This entire sequence from this paragraph happened in a matter of about 5 seconds

I’m now dumbfounded, like WTF just happened? I say to the dealer the hand is over right? He then says “I tried to tell you a player still had a hand” Again, say what? I ask for the floor.

2+2 please give me your insights. All opinions are welcome. I will finish the story in a bit.

if the story occurred as you describe, i see 3 faults:

1) players folding out of turn

2) dealer not controlling the game. "players, please fold in turn, action is still on seat 9"

3) you did not protect your hand.

Obviously you didn't protect your hand and other players folded out of turn, as u mentioned this occurred at 4:30 am... While playing at those wee hours of the night, please be more careful and aware of whats happening around you... cause alot of dealers and players are on zombie mode.

many KITNs.

dealer: for collecting seat 1, 4, and 6's cards rather than telling them to STOP and pointing at seat 9 telling him it was his action.

seat 1: for acting out of turn

seat 9: for not protecting his action (though if only a few seconds went by, he probably has some defense)

you: for not protecting your action and ensuring the pot was coming your way before showing your cards

--

result: seat 9's AI plays, you get to decide whether to call.

Count out 5 seconds to yourself. Don't say or think anything, except for picturing action moving around a table.

I can wait.

Seemed longer than you thought, probably. A lot can happen in five seconds.

Everybody screwed up here. But since it was your money, you screwed up the most.

Absolutely. Players so often use the excuse, "but the guy to my right acted!" It's possible anybody reading this right now has done this. In fact, the OP did it, because he acted after the last guy folded, completely missing that the person immediately after him didn't act.

Pay attention to everybody. Had the players folding out of turn paid attention to more than the 1-foot bubble around them, they would have noticed they were acting out of turn. Had p215j been keeping tabs on everybody involved in the hand with him, he would have noticed a distinct lack of folding from the person who still had cards, and been able to prevent this cascade of misery.

Yes, but to a lesser extent. As a dealer, I do everything I can to try to pay attention to everything all at once. I still occasionally get yelled at for not noticing a slight twitch or hear a mumbled comment because I was also paying attention to nine other things, but that's neither here nor there.

In this case, the dealer was looking at the action in seat 9. I don't know about you, but I don't have eyes on the back of my head. I can't see what seat 1 is doing when I'm looking directly at seat 9. I do try to be aware of all things at all times, but sometimes things happen directly behind you. I'm a good dealer, but I've occasionally turned around to a cascade of turbo folds while watching one person's action (you want me to call a string bet, right?). Even saying "stop, stop, STOP!" often doesn't wake people out of their "but the guy to my right folded!" mentality. And once a hand is mucked, it's mucked, regardless of order. I HAVE to scoop it in. Can you imagine the disaster arising from someone winning a pot after grabbing back a mucked hand?

This is, again, why the players in the hand should pay attention, especially the people making big bets. It's your money. The people who are in a hurry to fold don't give a crap about you.

Yes.

If you want to show your cards, do it after the pot is being pushed your way. When you're in a hand, pay attention to the other people in a hand with you. It's your money, yet you're acting so carelessly with it.

Many places would kill Opponent's hand because 3 people acted behind him.

So, it depends on what the dealer told the floor. How quick the folds, if Seat 9 asked for Time, etc.

If they do not kill it, you now have a choice, call or fold.

There are also some places that would not kill his hand, but would restrict his options to calling and folding. I don't like this one bit, but I have seen it in rule sets.

This one's pretty easy I think. You didn't protect your hand, so the action stands and you can call or fold. The players who folded out of turn get a warning to be more careful, but that's about it.

Am I the only one who thinks that this is an obvious bluff and we can easily call and win a bigger pot off this mistake? On the ruling, floor probably warns everyone to protect their action and continues the game with action on you to call or fold.

floor can potentially kill the player's hand for significant action behind him... it really depends on the details in this case though, imo.

also, how the hell are you both the sb and in position?

It was my first reaction too. But...... it depends on how decent a player (or how drunk) I think this old guy is. If I have him pegged as semi-decent, I might consider it a bluff, and call off my stack, or I might fold the hand and chalk it up as an expensive lesson.

If on the other hand I have him pegged as a particularly good player, I would never call off in this position. He would be expecting you to think of it as a bluff and to call, and so he is getting it all in with arguably a better hand.

The way it is played, and with typical old man nittiness (and he does have a decent stack behind him), he could just as easily be playing a hand like pocket Jacks here. In the 9 seat with this action, he would consider his move carefully which would have given the other players time to fold out of turn.

Lastly, whilst it is very unlikely he is holding the other two 10s in the deck, I reckon 99% of 2+2ers would play it exactly this way if that was their holding.

[QUOTE=AngusThermopyle;31401240]Many places would kill Opponent's hand because 3 people acted behind him.
QUOTE]

Really? That is a horrible rule. So everytime I have a big decision to make I also have to play dealer and make sure no one acts out of turn.

Do I have to get people drinks if I get up to use the restroom, too?

RRoP
Does Parx use the last rule? Did 'seat 9' try to stop the action?

I've definitely played in rooms where once "significant action" happens, then a change cannot occur. So the 3 folds, dealer collecting those hands, etc... would limit the shover's options to just calling or folding.

Its possible you could make a case to kill the hand also, since the player did nothing to alert the dealer, and it takes more than 5 seconds for 3 people to fold and cards to be collected. Even if it was 5 seconds, the guy still should have piped up. Instead he chose to angle shoot, gaining as much free info but improperly obtained info as possible.

Certainly a raise here from him is out of the question, as it puts you at a completely unfair disadvantage. This is true whether you showed your cards or not. In this situation, that is actually just extra info. What if you didn't show your cards? What if 3 people folded after him, you never show your cards and just wait for dealer to ship you pot, and then he reminds dealer he's still in the hand and goes all in?

Same ruling, he can't do it.

You don't have to make sure no one acts out of turn. You just have to be aware it is your turn to act when it is, and say something, like 'time', if you are thinking about your decision and see players fold out of turn.

I think it is a reasonable rule.

And yes, in some rooms, you do have to get drinks for the table at certain times: