I started a hand of Omaha with about $300. Across the table from me is a player who I have played with before, and he has huge chip stack swings. As I start the hand with him, he has approximately $85 left in front of him. I did not witness the last couple of hands he was in, so not sure how he became so short.

I have ace ten clubs plus xx (don't remember, not important).

Flop comes queen- king- jack 2 spades one red.

Approximately $30 in pot

He bets pot, I look at his stack, and say, okay I'll put you all in.

He says "great, I have $400 behind, I have the nut straight, and I have the redraw to the nut flush".

I ask the dealer what is this guy talking about, dealer says he has no idea. Player says he had bought chips prior to the hand, and they were on their way. Dealer says he was unaware, other players say they were unaware.

Chip runner confirms that he purchased $400 prior to hand. He says he announced the purchase, however, no players OR the dealer heard this announcment.

I call floor. I do not want the hand to continue until this is settled. I tell them I certainly would not have put $300 out with no redraw to anything. I said that I started the hand thinking that my entire risk was no more than $85. I tell the floor I contest the entire hand. They say that they need to see the video. Floor looks at video, confirms he bought the chips prior to hand, and says that it was my job to know what he had behind (even though their own dealer did not know he had chips coming).

Of course he hits the flush on the turn. They ship my $300 to him.

I am in shock. To my left is a professional dealer (did not know that at the time, never played with him before), who deals at another major casino. He is flabbergasted, and says that in the 20+ years he has been dealing, he has never seen such a bad call. He confirms that the dealer must declare that a player has chips coming. Since he did not know chips were coming, and he did not declare that, then how should I know this information. Other players at the table say they think the other player was totally angling, since at no point did he ever say he had chips behind.

What are your opinions out there? What recourse do you think I have or should take?

Tough spot. It's very strange that a chip runner came to the table, took his cash, announced "400 behind" (as they always do) and no one else at the table noticed ...

I agree w the floor's decision and don't think villain was angling. Most players in the 1/2 PLO do reload to 100-300BB stacks when short so $85 stack is unusual.

Anyway, this belongs in the venetian poker room thread.

So your raise can only be to ~$120 and he never said reraise... just "okay, i have ..." Should have been ruled a call. You cannot "put him all in".

1) The consensus at the table was that it was NOT announced. Yes, agreed, they are supposed to do this. No One at the table heard it, including the dealer.

2) I am new to this site. I was not aware that you shouldn't post questions about experiences that happened at casinos (you stated that this belongs on the Venetian poker room thread. I guess that means it does not belong here?)....my mistake.

You can put yourself all in, but putting someone else all in is not a valid bet. You can approximate his stack and use that as a ruling next time, and then the confusion would ensue when he says "I guess I'm all in...." and waits for the 400

Actually, you raise an excellent point...one I did not even consider. I was too caught up on them shipping him my $300, and didn't even think of this. Now I have TWO issues to deal with.

I was assuming he only had $15 more, so a $15 raise didn't seem correct. That is why I said I would put him all in...basically for the rest of his $85 stack

Welcome! Posting it here is fine. Just because it happened at the Venetian doesn't mean it has to be posted in that thread. The B&M main forum is for exactly these type of situations.

Thank you Lattimer. I was concerned I had already broken a rule with my first post. I noticed that this has been moved...but where to? Where do I find the B&M forum?

Never mind, obviously found it!

The post is certainly fine in its own thread in B&M, since it concerned a general rules question that could happen at any number of casinos. But you might want to title it a bit differently.

This whole situation is why I hate the way Vegas casinos deal with buying chips. I mostly play in AC, where there is no concept of "playing behind". But dont a lot of casinos have those little plastic tokens that the chip runners give to players while they are getting their chips? It seems like that would easily solve this problem.

it seems like something is missing here. I am assuming you were playing PLO and not NLO. I am going to figure the add on was legal and in play so If there was $30 in the pot and he bet pot there was no way for you to get him all in. if you say I put you all in this is not a valid raise. If you said I bet pot then action was on him. Did he then re-pot, if he did that then you would have had the option to call putting you all in or folding. If the hand didn't play out like this then I have no idea what was going on or what the floor and dealer were doing. If this was NL then nevermind my post.

The dealer is supposed to announce when a player has chips coming but, often enough, there are players that don't hear it or aren't paying attention. It's also the case that floor rulings differ depending on which floor you get. Having been burned like this myself I always ask if a player w/ a short stack is only playing that stack. A LOT of players hate being asked that when they don't have chips coming (I attribute that to them considering it an insult of some sort) but to heck w/ them. I've learned to protect myself.

Yeah, how can you put him all in on the flop for that much anyway?? you would just be raising the pot at that point....you blew it.

Well, actually since Mixedgame addict said I should post this on the Venetian forum, I tried to find that...cannot find a link to it anywhere. I google searched it, and came up with links to other forum sites, but no venetian forums.

Can anyone tell me what the venetian forum link is?