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| Brick and Mortar Discussions of brick and mortar gambling venues |
07-30-2012, 12:22 PM
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#1
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adept
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 977
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Was I over the line with my table talk?
3 handed pot on the river after Players A and B called my preflop raise and check/called my flop bet and turn was checked through.
Player A checks, Player B bets, and I raise as a bluff. Player A quickly folds and B starts tanking. B then starts stacking up the $40 (the raise was $140) and I'm about 95% sure he is going to call so I say "save it." I had previously stacked him after I raised pre with KK and flopped top set. I say "I don't want to do it to you again." He then asks if I made trip queens (a queen hit the river) and I say "yes." He says he believes me and folds. I do not show my bluff.
I know that some people on this forum think poker is an out-and-out war and that basically anything is fair game, but after the hand I felt really dirty about what I did. The guy was a nice gentleman who believed that I was trying to do him a kindness, and I certainly took advantage of that. Am I overreacting, or was this something the average player would consider too much?
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07-30-2012, 12:29 PM
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#2
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veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,200
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Re: Was I over the line with my table talk?
It is fine. Table talk is part of the game. It is up to your opponent to decipher if your talk is strength or weakness.
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07-30-2012, 12:30 PM
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#3
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Itchycoo Park
Posts: 10,752
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Re: Was I over the line with my table talk?
Not a fan of table talk, but I can generally live with it.
But the "I am your friend" BS while sticking the knife in, does irk me. Unless I really know that you are a straight up guy, I tend to call.
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07-30-2012, 12:55 PM
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#4
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 9,104
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Re: Was I over the line with my table talk?
You were heads up in a cash game so talk is fine. Your particular statements I think are fair. Deception about the strength of your hand during the betting phase is an integral part of poker. If you pull this at showdown its out of line, during the wagering phase its legitimate.
That being said some people may think that it makes you a douche. But then again some people think check raising or betting heads up makes you a douche.
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07-30-2012, 12:55 PM
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#5
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journeyman
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 382
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Re: Was I over the line with my table talk?
I have no problem with being deceptive about my hand with table talk, but in my opinion you shouldn't be deceptive about your intentions in the game in general. I mean you shouldn't pretend like you softplay someone when you really wouldn't if you had a big hand. I play in a lot of games where people are all friends and softplay each other HU, and I make it known that I'm not like that at all and don't want anyone to play me like that either.
It would be like if you have Ax, whiff the flop and then say "oh it's just me and you? OK, I'll check it down with you." while knowing that you would value bet the hell out of the guy if you had hit.
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07-30-2012, 01:38 PM
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#6
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veteran
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Funny, It Worked Last Time...
Posts: 3,050
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What Donk Quixote said.
Im the type who would slow-roll a douche for fun, wait for the bettor to flip over their cards before I flip my nuts, throw out an illegal raise size for the dealer to rule its just a call just to freeze the action on the next street, but I would not do what you did.
I must admit I fell for this line earlier this year.
I was having small talks with this cute female reg when I 3bet her open with QQ, she 4bet me. I took my time thinking how much to 5bet her when she whispered she had aces.
I reluctantly folded and she flipped over a bluff. Ever since I have been wishing misfortune on her.
Last edited by Rapini; 08-05-2012 at 07:45 PM.
Reason: merge
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07-30-2012, 01:48 PM
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#7
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centurion
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: San Jose
Posts: 142
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Re: Was I over the line with my table talk?
I know its poker, and have seen this done before. Still not a fan of it.
My only thing is this....if you say you have it or whatevr, then show your hand. I've seen people do what you did, not have it, and show it anyway.
Bottom line, its up to your opponent to play their hand. I had this done to me once, the guy showed me a bluff, and have ignored your type of comments ever since.
If you say you have it, show it. Otherwise, keep quiet. Bluff or no bluff.
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07-30-2012, 02:39 PM
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#8
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adept
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vegasssss
Posts: 710
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Re: Was I over the line with my table talk?
What you did was not "out of line."
That being said, it's a major douche bag move. It's about the equivalent of a salesman faking a family death to gain sympathy so someone will buy his product.
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07-30-2012, 03:43 PM
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#9
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veteran
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,446
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Re: Was I over the line with my table talk?
I thought this was going to be much worse. I guess Commerce is starting to make me expect the worst from people.
I think it's fine. I've done it before, but now I just keep quiet unless they ask me a question. I've done it and been called too, which was hilarious.
Bottom line, never trust anyone at a poker table.
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07-30-2012, 04:08 PM
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#10
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adept
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,120
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Re: Was I over the line with my table talk?
I have no ethical problem with this statement.
But I've seen people do exactly what you did, and get snapped off because of it. You're doing the classic "strong means weak" tell and if the opponent picks up on it you've just screwed yourself.
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07-30-2012, 04:10 PM
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#11
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adept
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 857
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Re: Was I over the line with my table talk?
Over what line?
It's legal and fine.
I think it's douchy, but try to ignore comments like that anyway.
What does Player A think? What would his post look like on the event?
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07-30-2012, 07:21 PM
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#12
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The Situation
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: CA and Vegas
Posts: 8,372
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Re: Was I over the line with my table talk?
meh, its fine.
Of course, you may feel a bit dirty afterwards but tbh, it really isn't a big deal. Poker is more than just the cards a poker chatter is part of the game.
I'm in a hand against a very seasoned veteran and I go for the bluff on the river and he raises me and says similar to you, "save your money, i got lucky on the river." which makes me happy because I know the guy is a soulless douche who would sell his mother into bondage for an easy buck. So, I shove over the top and he snap folds...
Talk is part of the game. So I find it kind of silly to distinguish between good talk and bad talk when the INTENTION OF ALL POKER TALK IS DECEPTION.
So no problem with what you did.
its part of the game and I do this to scared money noobs all the time...
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07-31-2012, 04:08 AM
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#13
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journeyman
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 230
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Re: Was I over the line with my table talk?
u probably feel dirty bc u lied to dude about specifically having trip queens. Plus when u didn't show he is probably thinking u lied and he suckered himself into that. I try to stay happy at table, and that can take some work, but I think my results are better. I prefer to keep other people happy at the table, bc I rhink my results are better, and that can take some work bc I can pop off w a smart remark if I'm grumpy.
When dude asked if u had trip queens, You coulda deflected and just said something like "I have a monster or a big hand" Then u wouldn't feel so dirty bc u aren't lying to a nice gentleman u want to be cool with, and you'd be cooler w what u did.
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07-31-2012, 09:45 AM
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#14
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grinder
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: chengducy
Posts: 441
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Re: Was I over the line with my table talk?
heads up say whatever you want
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07-31-2012, 12:32 PM
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#15
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,866
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Re: Was I over the line with my table talk?
Deception is part of the game, so how can what you did be wrong? Personally, your comment: "I don't want to do it to you again", would have made me more likely to call, not less. The exception would be if I really believed you to be a fun loving recreational player who doesn't care about money. Not to mention the fact there are now only 3 combos left of QQ so given your range, you're more likely than not to at least be lying about that.
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