I am in a very empty poker room at Dover Downs in Delaware on a Tuesday afternoon with a couple hours to kill before I have to leave to go to work. There is only one game, a couple open seats, populated with what seems to be a bunch of regs, mostly older folks. Everyone seems friendly and nice.

I have received exactly two hands since I sat down: Folding under the gun and checking my option in the Big Blind before folding to a flop bet. And then this:

In the Small Blind there are several limpers and I look down at 53 which seems worth a buck. Big Blind checks and the flop comes out A2T rainbow. I check and it checks around and much to my pleasure, a 4 that completes the rainbow comes out.

While thinking a moment how much should I bet (I was definitely going to bet out here) the old dude to my left in the Big Blind tosses out a $10 bet! The dealer immediately says "It's not your action yet."

I ask the dealer for clarification as to what my options are and it's standard for rooms I have played and dealt in: If I check, the bet stands. If I bet anything, the action changes so the bet goes back to the player and he can either call, raise or fold like usual.

I am thinking the smart move here is to check, let the $10 bet stand and then come in for a check raise. This allows me to put more money into the pot with the nuts and take position back for this street.

But I am also of the mind that this, while perfectly legal, is still a dick move. Yes, it wasn't my fault the Big Blind bet out of turn, but I was planning on betting and my questioning the dealer as well as having chips in my hand at the time could have clued off anyone at the table that I was planning on doing that, but I abandoned that plan when the opportunity - to angle? - availed itself to me.

I decided to be friendly and just bet out the same $10 he bet out in the hopes he might raise me but even if not, allowing me to play two hours or so at this table without feeling like I shot an angle three hands into a friendly game.

So did I lack a killer instinct here or did I do a good thing by not letting this opening alter the way I planned on playing the hand? How do you handle it?

This is pretty terrible. He made a mistake and gave you an opportunity to capitalize on it but instead you just pissed all over this opportunity and yourself and now your pant leg is all wet and your shoes smell like urine.

BTW, this probably belongs in the brick and mortar sub-forum.

Not an angle. You should've checked raised

Don't worry about lacking killer instinct if its only $10 you will make far more money from your opponents if you keep the game enjoyable for them i.e when they think you aren't going out of your way to take advantage of their errors. Unless the villain has 44, A4, or even 10 4 this hand probably isn't going to that far anyway.

That ruling is almost the exact opposite where I play, the money stays in and opponents almost always go over the top when this happens.

disagree. c/r

No, if someone bets out of turn and you check to let the action stand, it's not an angle shoot. Obviously, betting out of turn is often just an accident, where V gets excited with a big hand or just isn't paying attention. But, I think, a lot of times betting out of turn is actually the angle-shot.

The problem is that it gives V more information. Betting with aggression might mean you have a hand or it might just mean that you want a fold. By betting out of turn, V lets you know that he's probably not going to fold, so when you bet, it shows more strength. Plus, since you change the action, he can now change his.

Not a dick move at all. The game is played to capitalize on the mistakes of others. There's no angle to check/raise at all.

Strat derail
Completing from the SB with spec hands like this is a huge leak. Literally a sieve that'll bleed chips. AINEC. You check/fold most flops and are totally oop when you hit.
/derail.

Personally, I generally don't let his action affect mine. If I was going to bet (as you said you were), I bet (as you did). If I was going for the check-raise, I check. On rare occasions I will let the identity of the other player affect my choice.

Be aware that a lot of players at the table, even those not in the hand, will view a check-raise as a dirty play (ie they will assume that you were going to bet but changed your mind when the guy bet out of turn). If that matters to you.

I say I already checked.

I don't know if you remember me but we met and played at Revel once and I didn't need to read to the end of your post to know how you handled this.

It certainly would not have been an angle to C/R, and it would have been only a little bit of a dick move. But, like you, I wouldn't have pulled a move like that on an old man in a friendly game.

I think that lying about one's action is an example of a douchebag angle.

One good angle deserves another.

Nearly every day I see people bet out of turn to get the guy who was gonna bet to check and then they check behind.

You can and should play this hand any way you want. My opinion if your goal is to maximize your profit u ck and call. What realistic hand does he have here that he is going to call a ck raise unless he had 44

The problem with trying to be a nice guy here by not taking advantage of V's mistake is that, however you act now, he now knows that you now know what he was going to do, and he doesn't know what you intended to do if he had waited. This changes the whole dynamic of the hand, and the meaning of whatever action you do now take. You didn't cause this, but you cannot now change it, no matter what you do.
His acting out of turn was his error, and taking advantage of it is in no way an angle or a dick move, IMO. (It would be different if you had angled him into acting OOT.)
You may or may not wish to take advantage of his error, but you shouldn't need to penalize yourself for it, either. So you might as well play for profit, however you think best.
OTOH, if you really, really want to be an (unnecessarily) nice guy (not the worst thing to do), you could simply bet the $10, and announce that you were going to do it anyway before he acted OOT, and then let him act as he sees fit. I have done things like this myself, depending on whom I'm playing.

You could always check/call and then try to mazimize the river. Then you don't look like a dick and maybe he catches up just enough to stack off on the river. C/R there seems like obvious strong hand. Either way you don't have much invested so low risk.

You sure it was a mistake?

Both.

This isn't really a strat question. But if you were there to kill a few hours and be folksy with the folks and being friendly feels good and makes you happy then only you can decide.

But there is nothing wrong with checking per the rules and then acting based on that info and the dead money. That's not an angle. It would only be an angle if you somehow forced him to do this by covering your cards and delaying or something.

However this is a poker table and I'm pretty sure the goal of villain betting 10 was to win money from you. Not wanting to win his money back is probably a bit on the naive side.

This prob belongs in B&M.

He could have a hand that he planned to c/r the flop with. He was in the BB in a limped pot so he could have a 4x hand that made two pair. What percentage of players will fold two pair in this spot? How does that percentage change as a function of the size of the raise?

Some players will even show up with AQ or A5 after calling a modest c/r here. Some nuts with limp AK then be willing to 3bet when they hit top pair.

I would normally check anyways in this spot, so I have no problems checking to a player who bets out of turn.

If your goal was to just have fun and money was not important then not a problem with what you did. But if you were just playing poker like you always do, its a leak to not take every advantage placed before you.

I appreciate the posts here. I knew that a lot of people would call me lame, haha! Part of my move was also that I don't play the villain well. I play to win, but I also play for recreation and I play to be sociable and have fun. Even if the whole table didn't know that I planned on leading out, by check-raising here, I know that I changed my plan by the old guy's mistake (and it was a mistake, I am as sure as I can be of this) I would still be the guy who sat down and started check-raising people who made mistakes.

Maybe short-term this was a bad move, but I didn't want to be "that guy" for the remainder of my stay at this table. It would make for far less fun and I could even make a case that it might cut into future profits (though sure, someone might make the case it might allow more profits).

Oddly enough, playing it the way I did meant that I lost the minimum most likely. Old guy and another guy, a black guy probably younger than me, also called and the river was another 4 (pairing the board).

I led out for $20, old guy calls and the other guy raised me to $50. Since I had just arrived I couldn't know for sure he had a boat so I thought calling it was best and the old guy called too.

I seem to recall old guy had an Ace and maybe two pairs that were counterfeited when the board paired 4s, but the other dude has pocket deuces for the boat. I am pretty sure that he does not fold on the turn with a set, even bottom set, to anything that I might have check-raised to on the turn. My straight was pretty disguised and he couldn't know that's what I had anyway.

I bet plenty of people could pull this angle and convince you it was a mistake.

Even if it was a mistake you have every right to take advantage of it.

That being said I may have handled this just as you did. Especially if I am pretty sure it was a mistake.

It was a mistake. He was an old, old guy who forgot that I just sat down two hands prior.

I would check raise. I don't feel bad about taking advantage of other's mistakes or bad rulings for me because I feel they will be balanced out by my mistakes and bad rulings against me.

check raising is a legit poker play. nothing to feel bad about.

Since you seem so overly concerned with how others view you and your actions at the table, you absolutely did the right thing by announcing you had a real hand and leading out. You already provided your answer in your post - "allowing me to play two hours or so at this table without feeling like I shot an angle three hands into a friendly game." If it bothered you enough to make a post about it, there can be no doubt it would have bothered you those entire two hours, probably affecting your play to the negative. The way you can resolve this is to convince yourself that check raising here is not an "angle". No way, no how. Stop thinking that way, angling is doing something immoral and unethical - if you think check/raising and taking advantage of other players' mistakes is immoral and unethical, then stop playing poker and find another hobby. No need to have a killer instinct, just play solid friendly poker.