Playing the donk-tastic 1/2 at Planet Hollywood in Las Vegas last night. It's now close to dawn and I've been there a good ten hours, up over $1200. (obv brag)
I've been chatty and friendly with the Asian gentleman to my left. He's a tight, careful player. Nothing out of the ordinary. Seems harmless enough.
Planet Hollywood has no betting line but has a weird house rule, where if you've got chips in your hand and you're contemplating a call, riffling or cutting them in front of you, IF THE CHIPS IN HAND ARE IN FRONT OF YOUR CARDS IT CAN BE RULED THAT YOU ARE BETTING/CALLING/RAISING. In other words, you have to keep your cards IN FRONT of your chips at all times. even the ones in your hands.
As someone who usually protects his hand at all times, the cards are normally closer to me than any chips in my hand (which I always have - I'm constantly either shuffling chips or riffling them in my right hand), but always in clear view for the other players. And though I've been warned once or twice through the night by dealers, I've never seen them actually call someone on it.
Well, Asian Guy and me get into a hand with a third.
On the river, I made a small flush and checked, as me and Asian Guy were both very deep and he was a very straight-forward player - it seemed he was on a draw as well. The third guy checks, and the Asian guy bets about 2/3 pot.
I take my time, thinking about the action, knowing I'm not folding but wondering if I can go for a thin-value check-raise.
As I'm doing so, I sort of lean forward in my seat, mindlessly shuffling about $40 worth of chips on the felt in front of me with my right hand - obviously not calling, just contemplating.
But they are now IN FRONT OF MY CARDS.
This is when the Asian Guy speaks to the dealer, pointing at my hand full of chips.
"Is that a call?"
The Dealer kinda freezes and looks at me, waiting to see what I'll do. I just chuckle and ask the Asian Guy, "Do you want me to call?" He just looks at the Dealer again.
"That's okay, I was going to call anyway," I say. And slide the chips forward. The third guy folds, and the Asian Guy breaks into a grin and says, "Dammit, you out-leveled me! I was trying to get you to fold."
He had a missed straight draw.
While I found all of this kind of amusing, I was wondering what 2+2 would think of his attempted angle - out of line or okay?
I used to play in the old Showboat room in AC when they had no betting lines on the table. As in your post, one's cards were considered the betting line, and any chips moved beyond one's cards were considered a bet (or call).
Several times I saw people forced to put money in the pot if they moved chips in front of their cards when it was obvious they had no intention of betting/calling.
It's not something I would call on someone unless they were a complete dick, and I wanted the money in the pot.
I think it's a foolish move by the villain here, since if that is the rule, I would expect a floor to rule that you had called if he has to make a ruling. Especially after you had been warned a couple of times about their rule. But he probably knows more about how diligently they enforce it than I do.
Yeah that's a pretty good level. Of course there's a chance it could backfire, but that's part of the risk.
If you had a mid-strength hand, maybe two pair or top pair top kicker, then you would be more inclined to fold with that kind of play and table talk.
I think I may try that next time someone is playing with their chips in a hand with me.
...Planet Hollywood has no betting line but has a weird house rule, where if you've got chips in your hand and you're contemplating a call, riffling or cutting them in front of you, IF THE CHIPS IN HAND ARE IN FRONT OF YOUR CARDS IT CAN BE RULED THAT YOU ARE BETTING/CALLING/RAISING. In other words, you have to keep your cards IN FRONT of your chips at all times. even the ones in your hands.
As someone who usually protects his hand at all times, the cards are normally closer to me than any chips in my hand (which I always have - I'm constantly either shuffling chips or riffling them in my right hand), but always in clear view for the other players. And though I've been warned once or twice through the night by dealers, I've never seen them actually call someone on it.
I know you got a bazillion posts and might be one of those "I've been playing poker for longer than you've been alive so don't tell me poop" kinda players, but my advice is that you lose that habit.
Any habit that can potentially cost you money is just a bad habit. You don't want to set yourself up for a potential angle shot or worse, you end up getting forced into a bad call because of house rules.
Put a rubber band on your wrist and pop yourself everytime you shuffle your chips in front of your cards until you stop doing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamraise
...It's okay for Durrrr.
I love how Laak levels himself with the "I know that you know that I know that you know..." cycle. Of course, at that level I know a lot of that is unavoidable...
Lastly, I always hated that old guy announcer. I hate how he tries to interject his poker wisdom into every hand since 1/2 the time he's freaking wrong. Its almost as if he's a 1/2nl ABC player who's trying to commentate on how and why these nosebleed players do what they do...
I've played at PH a few times. I habitually hold my cards with my left hand while shuffling chips with my right hand. I have never been warned nor seen anyone been warned in that room about playing with chips in front of our cards. If I were you, I would ask myself why it's an issue with me specifically, and I would consider how my actions might be perceived by others, even in card rooms that have betting lines. You might be giving them a reason to call you out.
I do not understand how someone cannot understand that he needs to push his protected hole cards forward so that he can play with his chips behind them.
I have played in several rooms in AC in which this rule is standard, and I have never had a problem with it.
I've never had a problem with any other room but PH with this. But I'm not the only one, a dealer will usually warn a player at the table at least once a down. I've yet to see them enforce the rule, though.
I just started putting a few chips on my cards and put them forward a bit on the felt. <shrug>
I don't handle my chips or my cards in any non-normal manner, so I'm not going to worry about it.
I don't think its anywhere near an angle.
An "Angle" is where the villian is trying to use a grey area in the rules to force a decision in his favour.
The villian in your hand tried to spook you into folding. If he had the nuts, then I would consider him trying to angle you.
But I'm not the only one, a dealer will usually warn a player at the table at least once a down.
If we're trading anecdotes, I really must say that this is not at all what my experience has been there. I have literally never heard a dealer at PH warn anyone for this. It has never been an issue.
Lastly, I always hated that old guy announcer. I hate how he tries to interject his poker wisdom into every hand since 1/2 the time he's freaking wrong. Its almost as if he's a 1/2nl ABC player who's trying to commentate on how and why these nosebleed players do what they do...
Gabe Kaplan? Are you freaking kidding? His insight into the thought patterns of the players is uncanny. Yeah, sometimes he gives the "1/2nl ABC" perspective, but that is only to highlight the difference in levels of play. As poker color analysts go, Gabe's top notch.
He's also a very good player. In one of the PAD "commentator's weeks", he played allot of hands, made allot of crazy plays, and shipped it.
Probably my fave Kaplan poker moment was when he sat in for awhile on HSP. Matusow paid him $1000 for the pleasure of playing him for awhile (the obvious meaning is that Matusow felt Kaplan was a fish, or ran his mouth talking smack about it and Kaplan took him up on it). Kaplan took that $1000 chip and exchanged it for stacks of $1 bills. He claimed he wanted some stacks of cash so he could look baller. The funny part is that because they were $1's they didn't play, so Matusow's $1000 was never put at risk. Win or lose for the sesh (Gabe came away winner btw) Gabe was going to walk with Matusow's $1k.
Gabe Kaplan? Are you freaking kidding? His insight into the thought patterns of the players is uncanny. Yeah, sometimes he gives the "1/2nl ABC" perspective, but that is only to highlight the difference in levels of play. As poker color analysts go, Gabe's top notch.
Gabe Kaplan is the nuts in the booth. No question about it. Also, you left out the most important detail in the story - when he sat down at the table, Doyle gave him $90k out of his stack to play with. You think Doyle is just going to let any idiot play with his money? And how does someone like dgiharris not know who Gabe Kaplan is???
To keep this threadworthy, I really don't see this as an angle at all, regardless of what the player held in his hand. This is nothing worse than Phil Hellmuth telling Max "You fold, I'll take this one. You win the next one" on the Big Game.
No level here dom, but good for you for not going for a value raise(much prefer the initial bet out in position to a value re raise). I might have been an opportunity for you to make the bet look bluffy... now get on that new movie draft!
you play at PH? every time I go into that place it's dead.
Two Plus Two
Linear Mode
