The standard penalty where I work is one round away from the table.

I suspect there already is a rule in that room against players calling other players obscenities. The real issue is the floors not enforcing it. So I'd recommend the next time someone calls you *******, stop the game by calling for the floor. When the floor shows up, simply calmly say "this guy just called me in ******* for not chopping. Is that allowed here?" The floor will be forced to say no, and tell the guy to knock it off.

Then when it happens again, immediately ask for the floor and stop the game. Keep rinsing and repeating as necessary. This will force the floor to take action, as the game will keep getting stopped. Plus, it removes any excuse for the floor not taking action as he cant claim he didnt know about it.

If this doesnt solve the problem, then try talking to higher management, but now you can specifically say "floor Joe Blow came to the table X number of times but no players rceived penalties and the harrassmnt continued". This puts the floors on the spot to expalin why they didnt do something.

Getting called an ******* isnt an acceptable part of table talk anywhere. Force the floors to do something about it by calling them over every single time it happens. They'll get tired of it and finally take action.

That seems like the appropriate response for someone in your shoes. (I wouldn't bring up any specific rule from RROP, or anything like that -- just explain you're being proactive for issues you've seen in the past.) Done correctly, there would be a pre-tournament discussion between the floor and dealers and they will have a response ready at the time.

My advice to you: no whining. Just keep the conversation short and sweet.

I had a very good conversation with the poker room supervisor tonight. I told him what happened and that it wasn't the first time i had experienced it. We both agreed that there was no way to get the table to stop constantly talking about chopping BUT that in the future any player who crosses the line and gets abusive towards the player who doesn't want to chop is going to receive a one round penalty to start with and if they continue with abuse they might get bounced from the tournament and banned from future tourneys for a time. Going forward, he is going to have the floor person make a statement when the final table is formed about how people should behave when someone doesn't want to chop. That way, ppl won't be able to say that they didn't know it was a rule.

He is going to specifically bring this up to his floor people at their next meeting and make sure that they enforce it. Especially to the graveyard super who was the one who looked the other way.

Unfortunately, I could not make it to tonight's tourney but I will be there next week. He asked me to make sure to introduce myself to him next time I am in the room. It was a very friendly and short conversation and I am happy with the resolution.

I am sure that the next time I play there, I will be in these ppl's heads even more...they will also try to gang up on me, which is fine, because they are terrible to begin with so more chips for me.

Thanks for all the input.

Having played this tourney a bunch when we lived in 29 Palms I completely agree, I got yelled at once for raising too many times. It's the cost of playing with complete donks and awful regs.

I know it'll slow things down quite a bit but how hard is it to do an anonymous chop vote? Each player gets a red and a black card. Red means you're down to discuss chop, black means you don't want to chop. Everyone throws in their vote, floor collects the discards, dealer mixes the cards, takes a look and announces if chop negotiations can go on or not. It really won't help the OP in this situation though since he's already known as the guy who never chops.

For argument's sake, lets say it's simple and doesn't slow the game down more than 1/4 of a hand. It's still not something that should have to be done... this is a step that would only be taken to counter poor behavior of people that are supposed to act like adults. If you remove this opportunity from them to instead behave like douchbags, they'll just find another. You can't prevent the behavior by hiding what you think is the reason for it, you prevent it by giving solid incentive for people to control themselves.

Its silly to have a vote on whether to talk about a chop. No rational person should ever vote against discussing a chop .... they could offer you 1st place money in the chop discussion they could offer you more than 1st place money so why would you not at least give them the opportunity to do so.

Anonymous votes on whether to accept a chop seem like a good idea but in reality they don't really work because either players openly negotiate thereby making there position known or the anonymous vote becomes an impediment to reaching an agreement as all you can vote on is the first proposal made with no way f refining the agreement to what people want.

There were two issues I was upset with in my experience at Agua Caliente earlier in the week...the first was that the dealer and the floor told the final table to stop discuss chopping and asking me to chop at all after I said that I never chop and that we were going to play it out. The dealer kept telling people to shut up about it. The floor came over a second time and said "This gentleman said he is not going to chop and the discussions need to end." None of the warnings had any affect and people kept constantly chirping about it and asking me why i wouldn't chop and what was wrong with me. When this continued, I should have asked for penalties rather than just continuing to say "I don't chop." In addition, this also showed me that the regs run over the dealers and the floor regularly at this room.

Per my discussion with the floor super later, we both agreed that there is no way to get people to stop asking for a chop. He said off the record that If I didn't like the chop talk I probably shouldn't play in the tournament. That is the default in this room, the regs always chop when they get to the final table even though it only usually pays top 6. Its the same group of idiots every night and that is why they all freaked out when I said no chop...they were already counting their money when they got to the final table and I ruined it for them. I saw how they changed their play when they knew there wasn't going to be a chop and I will exploit them mercilessly in the future at the final table going forward.

I know I am going to be the room's heel now. I am ok with that. Because of that I am going to become an uber table captain and ask that the rules be enforced on the regs because they are allowing them to get away with murder. One example was a hand that I was not in when we were down to about 15 ppl...there was a min raiser in middle position, button calls, SB folds, BB (heavyset hispanic lady who is one of the better players and also an angle shooter) looks at cards, tanks, and mucks with a sigh of disgust. The flop comes...rainbow 10 10 7...the hispanic lady who folded in the BB lets out a few loud squeals, jumps out of her chair, and does a dance where she turns a complete 360 spin a few times. I am not in the hand but I am sitting directly across from the dealer and I look at him and raise my hands to say wtf? He tells the lady that she needs to shut up and not pull that move again. First off, I have played with that lady a ton around the inland empire. She knows better. If she had done that when I was in the hand, I would have gone crazy. I am not sure what she was thinking. She feigned ignorance and said 'what did i do?' The dealer told her she was giving information when she was not in a hand. This is the kind of thing that I am now going to be merciless about--they already don't like me, they will never like me and quite frankly the more I can mess with them the more it will mess with their heads. So I will become a table lawyer and that is fine...I have seen the regs gang up on people from out of town about the rules and now the tables will be turned.

The second issue and the one that the floor super and I agreed needs to be stopped immediately is the name calling and verbal harassment. Again, in retrospect I should have asked for penalties, but it wasn't the first time it had happened to me at this room and I had 20 ppl all directing their dislike towards me. I was trying to win the tournament and that is where my mental energy was going...I have been called plenty of names before in rooms, it will happen again and I can deal with it. It was only after the tournament ended that I realized this type of abuse from the same ppl happened the last time i played there. And that is why I said something to the floor on duty at the time and why I have escalated things by asking the lead super to control the regs in the room.

I am sure that the next time I play in the room that that the chirping and name calling will start, especially from the shortys who I busted out and didn't cash last time. Before the tourney, I will go to the floor and tell them I have been harassed in the tourney in the past and that I will be calling them over if I have problems. Rinse, repeat as an earlier poster said.

I am a tournament specialist and I normally don't play cash. But these ppl are so bad and they have annoyed me...so i might start showing up there to play cash because they are such dead money.

Older gentleman in his mid to late 70's, wears a Green Bay Packers baseball cap? last year I was the button to his big blind in the big memorial day tourney...i stole his blind on 3 consecutive orbits...the 4th time he stood up and threw his cards at me and started yelling...i busted him two hands later. i have seen him yell at ppl plenty.

Sounds about right and the regs behavior was a big reason I stopped playing there, the level of play is awful but dealing with those people wasn't worth it. Good luck with your crusade.

One reason why the House probably won't back you up.

You do not make money for them. Cash players support the room.

This happens everywhere all the time. I agree it shouldn't, but it does.

I think you should work more on being the nice guy at the table, so when it comes time to discuss chopping, you can respectfully decline and they'll honour your wishes. Being a nit about stuff like the above does not work towards this goal.

Sure, you might lose a tiny bit of immediate equity when you don't learn whatever deep dark secret the guy was sharing, but you gain a lot more equity over the long term by not being the villain.

Pfapfap, you're usually spot on but in this case it wouldn't matter how he acted. That room is all regs due to location and they treat non choppers and non regs like trash.

I absolutely agree with you, no one likes the rules lawyer at the table and most people are at the casino to have fun and you want to make sure you are helping them in that regard. I play in a lot of rooms around California and I always try to keep things light at my table, make little jokes at my expense, and especially try to be friends with the people at my immediate left.

The happier you keep the table the more the chips will flow to the middle. That is my default policy. Also never tell someone they made a bad play or that they got "lucky" by sucking out on you. Also I try to let the dealers I know I appreciate them, I say hello when a new dealer sits down and I thank them when they go. I have found that if the table is happy and ppl generally "like you" that all of these things are +EV in playing...but this room is different. The inmates are running the asylum. It wouldn't matter if I handed out candy and told everyone I was donating my winnings to the blind sisters of the poor...if you don't play the regs way (lots of limping and soft play) and go along with how things are usually done, you are going to be targeted. It has happened to me and I have seen it happen to out of town tourists during the high season...i am surprised mgmt lets it go on because it is the best poker room in the area and really the only game in town for wealthy tourists who want to play poker.

I have tried to be nice each time I have played there recently--three final tables the last three times I played there in tourneys, once this year and twice last year in the spring...and each time I have been berated and harassed for not chopping...so I have concluded in this room i am going to be the player they love to hate.

And yes, the games are so juicy here that it is worth putting up with the BS. So I am going to make sure they enforce the rules when I play...the alternative is to play the regs game and chop at the end of the tourney--and that is never going to happen. I am a far better player then any of them, they never adjust, they have no concept of pot odds or push/fold. Each time I have said no chop, I have come away with at least 2x the money I would have gotten if I agreed to chop...now I have never been in a situation where i was the extreme short stack at the final table and that is where I might agree to a chop, I am sure it will happen someday and I am guessing they will go along with it then because they are letting people with less than 2 BB who are currently 2 or 3 places from the money into an equal share of the prize pool on a regular basis.

Its a weird place and I am glad that others in the thread have commented on similar experiences so I know I am not alone. It kind of reminds me of the old quote "In an insane world, the sane man appears insane."

If you weren't so unpopular you might have more of a chance.

Work on your image.

(And yes, I agree you have the right to refuse chops and not be abused, but you catch more flies with honey etc

They are weeknight tournaments comprised of 2/4 3/6 limit players, it resembles a hospice bingo session more than a poker game. Clean the sand outta your snatch and take their money

Instead of saying "no chops", just say a price. If you think your current equity given the prize pool and stack sizes is $500, say you will chop if you get $500, and then you don't care how they split up the rest. Or, ask for more than whatever you perceive is your fair equity. Say $600 instead if you like. Every time they bring up a chop, name your current price. If they say no, it's no different than if you had simply refused all deals. If they say yes, you're getting a fair deal, or better.

And definitely don't take the abusive stuff. It's very different if somebody keeps talking chops when you've refused as compared to verbally abusing you about it. Ask the dealer to call the floor every time it happens, and ask for the offending player to be penalized, as you've suggested. If it's the rail, again, ask the dealer to call the floor, and ask the floor to have the abuser on the rail removed from the poker room, or the entire casino.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

FossilMan sighting!

Mubsy sighting!

The best is when they start outloud group think on how your playing and how they view you lol. And, then you exploit that to the max. Apparently they think your deaf on top of being a maniac.

I played in this poker room 1 time this summer.... it felt like a time machine dropped me off in 2001 at a omc nit convention. I haven't seen that % of nits in 1 place at 1 time in a long time. It's like a nit hideaway where they all decided to retreat back to their headquarters. Didn't play a tournament, just cash game'd lol'd and then left. Probably won't go back.

Your story reminded me of 1 time that I refused to pay the bubble at Oceans 11 and then KO'd every person remaining. I refused it because some nit kid to my left was down to maybe 2 bb trying to fold his way into the chop the entire time (he survived multiple flips blinding out before that). Then I got the 3rd degree from some 50+ juiced up tourney reg (picture Mickey Rourke "The Wrestler"), that's infamous for offering to pay the bubble/bubbles. He goes on to berate I don't think I've ever seen you make a final table yaddy yada yada I play here all the time and we always pay the bubble here spiel! He's such a nice guy, and I'm the !@#$head. (Very next hand he tries to put me on the rail with a bad call, and then apologizes to the rest of the table when it doesn't happen) Class act.

His argument being that the bubble put in so much work playing for 4+ hours, that he should at least get rewarded with something.

Yeah, and what about the poor sap that just finished 12th 2 minutes ago that you just changed the payout structure on? What about his 4+ hours of work? Maybe 12th place plays it differently if he knows your going to come in behind him and change things after he's gone.

It's all bs angle shooting, whenever it's convenient for them to chop or pay the bubble they will want to.

Remember these are all really nice people that want to chop and they feel really bad when you lose and don't get paid.

"Okay fine; I'll chop. I get first place money and you guys can split up the rest as you see fit."

This is absolutely true and the funniest part of the whole experience. At the first break, the regs at my table ran around to their friends telling them about the what kinds of hands I was playing and that i was a complete maniac. By the time it got down to two tables, everyone had a full scouting report.

It's true the place is like a twilight zone episode. I would love it if one night, a bunch of 2p2's invaded the place, it would be chaos.

I am in LA for thxgiving and then vegas for the golden nugget tourney on the 29th....so no agua caliente till december, but I will be back soon.

I suggested that many times, it didn't get me anywhere. The best offer was $600, which was $270 less than I ended up winning. I will take Fossilman's advice in the future and come up with the right number based on ICM and add a little to it in the future rather than insisting on first place and see where that gets me.