I play 2/4 LHE at local casinos. Everytime theres a holiday and there will be a lot of tourists around the regs cant take advantage at low limit because the teams of colluders show up and jam all the pots and run off the tourists and make it too expensive for a single honest player to sit in. The casinos dont care because the rake is so huge at these tables. l think they are wrong because at least Foxwoods is getting such a bad rep that we are getting a lot less tourists now even with inflation. Its not so bad at the Sun because its smaller.

I thought about this for a while and I have an idea how to combat this if a casino would do it and I wanted to get the opinions of live low limit players.

I think there should be tables with progressive raising. You can only raise once pf, twice on the flop, 3 times on the turn and four times on the river. This would only be for limit 2/4 and maybe 4/8. It could be optional, like have both kinds of tables and see who wants to sign up for what list.

I'd like read opinions from live players who have played with these slugs and if you think this would help.

Either this is a terrific level or you are tremendously paranoid. The thought that at Foxwoods there is an organized attempt to collude at 2/4 limit is laughable. If a team is planning to collude, they're going to do it at a level of play to make it worthwhile for the team to get paid, not at the lowest level of play.

What you are seeing is a couple of friends gambling it up at a table. If you don't like it and can't adjust, ask for a table change.

Finally, the rake is $4 + $1, just like all the other tables (except high limits which don't play the BBJ). If you think that is bad, don't play in a Caesars' casino.

This is a difficult and unpleasant problem to deal with. It isn't something that can be quickly identified and solved.

The majority of poker room mangers preferr to pretend it doesn't exist and won't cost the room future business.

I used to work in a room which was pretty much $2 $4 LHE.

There was one player in particular wh would often storm off muttering about the team play.

So I stopped him one day and asked him what he was upset about. He told me that it was obvious that players were playing as a team. I asked him what made him think that. Totally straitfaced he told me that because someone raised preflop without AA it was obviously cheating. "Why would anyone raise preflop without AA"

Op seems to have the same sort of outlook. Why are people rasing and reraising .... the only answer he can come up with is that they are cheating.

But jamming pots is a terrible way to cheat. Its a great way to gamble though.

How could there be a $2/$4 limit table that is too expensive to sit in?

Lol
Last time I was in Vegas me and 2 of my friends went to some casino completely ****faced and sat at a 2/4 limit table
Every single hand one of us would raise, the other would reraise and the 3rd with 4 bet preflop without looking at our cards, and usually before we got them

People were complaining that we were ruining the game
I went to almost every river betting and raising without looking at my cards
I was donating a good amount and finally on one hand I never looked and went crazy all the way to the river betting and raising as usual and happened to have a full house vs someones lower full house

They then accused me of looking at my cards on that hand and told me what a piece of **** I am blah blah blah
People were actually leaving this game when we were just giving money away
Eventually 2 floor people were watching our table like hawks (they also told me they would kick me out if I kept betting red black with the guy next to me.)

The funniest part of it is these idiots usually think they actually know how to play poker

What you have to remember about (a lot of) the people that play the very smallest limits is they aren't there to gamble. They are there to socialize. A lot of them would rather sit there and not play cards if they could get these other 7 or 8 people to sit around a table with them and talk. When someone comes in gambling (raising, probably drinking, and not wanting to talk about the things old men talk about). They get upset when "outsiders" come and do anything other than meekly hand over their money.

Dude! Each street you may have to put in like... SIXTEEN DOLLARS!

re-level: How about we make a game with no raising allowed. There is one bet allowed on each street, after that it is capped. Then you can call down cheaper without feeling like you got raised out of a pot.

At Foxwoods, the 2/4 tables get busy when the BBJ gets big with players looking to play any two cards that can hit it cheaply.

Many years ago, when I managed the kind of club that we don't talk about in B&M, they once adopted a special rule similar to this. I don't know why they wanted this nit in the game, but they agreed that nobody could raise his big blind.

This is basically right, except that some of them really are there to gamble, in the sense that they see poker as a game of luck, not skill; but they want to do it as cheaply as possible, and they don't like seeing the amount wagered per hand go up. At very low limits, a lot of people seem to think that the "right" way to play is for almost everyone to limp preflop, and for no one to raise on the flop, turn or river without the nuts, and then just to see who has the best hand on the river. (This is actually gambling in a pure sense, since it pretty much reduces the game to luck, as opposed to actually playing the game with varying levels of skill.) For these folks, anyone who plays aggressively is "ruining the game", and if two players do it, especially if they're friends, they MUST be colluding (since they can't BOTH have the nuts!).

I wasn't thinking about those kinds of games. I had a particular type of game in mind where they come in and socialize and maybe play some cards. The players I am thinking of played 1-5 stud when there was 1-5 stud.

Either you are totally clueless or never have done what i did. I have hardly played any online poker but I have played live at $2/4 for years in Connecticut. If that makes me a laughable person or not worth anyone taking seriously so be it. But I made about 24k a year as a sidejob doing this and you don't know **** about it.

They don't do this higher because they can't get away with it. Here is how it works always on holiday weekends. They come in as if they don't know each other and all sign up in the morning right after a new table is opened. They wait to see where the new table is and go there while they are setting up to get the seats they want: 7-8 and 10. They play with any 99 or better. If 7 has it he can just bet and the others raise with any two cards. If the 8 has it he signals the 7 to bet so they all get in. The 10 seat has a signal when he looks at his cards to let them know, how he drops a chip say.

If they get everyone out but two players they have about 50% + chance of raking the pot. If they get three players about 45%. Because they jam every street they takedown a lot of pots players just give up on. You are the one who doesn't know much about live play if you think this doesn't happen all the time because you have so much contempt for small stakes players. These people are slugs and the slimiest bottomdwellers in a pokerroom.

The last team I sat with in two hours took over 60% of the pots played. That's $75 a pot for maybe 13 pots an hour for about 14 hours. That's about 12k-14k a night. Small change to you I am sure what with you being in Bobby's Room all the time.

This is how you know for sure.

7 in the BB. 8 calls. 10 raises. 7 reraises. 8 caps. If the 8 wanted to play a big pot why didn't he raise in? To make sure it gets capped. Hand plays out and 10 wins and has to show down his 83o. The hand he raised with and fell into a FH. This doesn't happen one time this happens all night long.

Second way is they play so fast that most dealers and especially female ones don't have control of the table and they splash the pot on the high bet streets to s that when they raise they are only putting in three chips not four. You think the dealers don't know? I saw a male dealer last night totally shut these guys nonsense down and they backed off while he was dealing.

I dont have to change tables because I am always going to be on their right and I always tell them straight out that I'll only be playing premium against them and they shut down when I raise in except for the one guy maybe who has a hand but mostly when they make you as not a tourist who knows their game they get off you because they know you also have local friends in the room. Im happy when they are raising if I am in but the problem is they run off the people I make my own money from. Those holiday weekends are worth a lot of money to me too.

One team is four people. Young guy and his "wife" and an older guy and his "sister-in-law." They always have a loud conversation about how the young couple took the bus and what fictional town they live in and the older couple offers them a ride later so they don't have to leave. This way they are covered if anyone sees them in car together. The older woman then stages a conversation where she loudly says that people who have the nerve to take a risk deserve to get paid. The little wife girl is a sweater, her chair far enough back, mousy thing always on a cell phone and never under a camera. Husband guy always shows her his cards. Woman in the 7 waits still as statue for cell in her pocket to vibrate before she acts. Transmits signal under table to older guy in 8 seat. They took about 20k off the table that day.

Guess no one wanted to take the suggestion seriously because you are all so freakin ass smart you couldn't possibly be wrong about anything. I think you are idiots who never had to grind our way up in a poker room at low limits and are probably getting taken at your 1/2nl games and dont even know it. If you could read youd know I just wanted this at 2/4 on holidays and optional. I like plenty of action at my tables just like you do and I know all the friend colluders in the room who play my limit. Like the two old guys where one looks like a basset hound and the other like santa claus. There are a lot of others. These are regs and we all handle them.

I should have known better because 2+2 is the same place that wouldnt listen when people said FTP was stealing their money and bots operated in the open there. Your all big time high stakes players too busy counting your thousands of dollars a night take.

If anyone has anything useful to say about how the idea would effect the profit of these teams id like to hear. Others GTFO of my thread you are too stupid to have anything to say I can use.

So their strategy is to lay you 3:1 when you enter a pot with them? I think there are a number of people that can help you what to do when they are laying 3:1.

This is a common complaint. The unsophisticated player will often think that cheating occurs by whipsawing an unsuspecting player. In reality whipsawing can give an observant player a huge edge (they are after all laying 3:1). Cheating (that doesn't occur at this level) generally consists of a partnership playing "best hand" against the unsuspecting targets.