Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > General Poker Discussion > Brick and Mortar

Notices

Brick and Mortar Discussions of brick and mortar gambling venues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-19-2012, 08:56 AM   #31
adept
 
The Big K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Philly
Posts: 798
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

Poker BN, the poker room manager for Parx, Ari, frequently answers questions in the Parx thread. You might want to bring this to his attention for an explanation and ask him to post it in here so we can all see it. I would also point out the floor said nothing while the clock was counted down. (imo, he should at least give some time intervals like 30 seconds, 10, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 as well state the penalty before starting the countdown.) Ari is good at listening to the players and making changes if necessary.
The Big K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 09:05 AM   #32
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
psandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 9,118
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko the munkey View Post
but if I had to guess, I would say it's to prevent angleshooting by doing exactly what is described in the OP.

I have never seen anyone try this in a live game. It is deceptive and is the definition of an angle - manipulation of the rules to gain an advantage over an opponent.

What do you think is the angle (and I disagree with your definition of an angle but even by your definition what advantage is gained by not acting while the clock is called on you?)
psandman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 11:05 AM   #33
veteran
 
Bene Gesserit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: My Old Kentucky Home
Posts: 3,152
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

Has to be some kind of silly, worthless angle being tried. I have never seen anybody let the clock run out without doing some action voluntarally. Hell maybe he was narcoleptic and was actully ZZZZZ, OK that's a reach.
Bene Gesserit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 11:38 AM   #34
adept
 
Namdrahsirhc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,012
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

Totally disrespectful of others time. I'm glad his hand was mucked and its def the right ruling. Someone needs to remind these types of players that they're not on tv or on stage and that nobody wants to sit around watching them think for 3 minutes every hand
Namdrahsirhc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 12:03 PM   #35
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 81
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

Going to post this in the Parx thread thanks everyone for the discussion.
PokerBN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 12:45 PM   #36
King of the sidebar
 
Neil S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 15,953
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

I like the ruling. If you're not facing a bet, then just check. Sheesh. Best interests of the game not to let people stall like that for no reason. Enough Hollywood nonsense.
Neil S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 01:27 PM   #37
RR
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NOLA
Posts: 11,326
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

It should be a check, but I have never seen a that situation. Of course if someone let's the clock run out to check, the next time he needs a clock it will be much shorter.

I once saw a player trying to stall in a tournament fold by refusing to act until someone called a clock and let his time run out.
RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 09:04 PM   #38
centurion
 
uDrewAtThat?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: On the Button
Posts: 159
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

I don't see how it can be a check... The floor cannot play a hand for a player and the player was obviously not in his seat (at least mentally) so the hand should be dead.

Besides, what's best for the game overall... A player who refuses to play his hand and tries to force the floor to play it for him tying up a seat, or that player leaving and giving his seat to someone who will actually play? I'd definitely argue it's the player who refuses to play the cards he's been dealt leaving.

He refused to play his hand.
No one else can play it for him.
Dead Hand.
uDrewAtThat? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 09:32 PM   #39
old hand
 
PokerZombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 1,461
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

I think this player can't have a live hand.
If he has to make a decision within a time frame there has to be a penalty (which was likely announced) for not making it in that time frame.

In this case the penalty is killing the hand (reasonable and almost 100% stated before the countdown).

If the player did not bet or check when the timer ran out then he did not act. If he did not act on his hand no one else is allowed to, and the penalty for not acting, which was stated in advance, was killing the hand.

Hand is mucked and only player with a live hand wins.
PokerZombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 09:56 PM   #40
veteran
 
bulls_horn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,286
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

Maybe you didn't see the part where Floor didn't specify what would happen after the clock ran out.
bulls_horn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 11:08 PM   #41
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 612
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

OP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerBN View Post
The floor (he was a former dealer recently turned floor) never said anything while he was counting down.
Schadenfred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 11:12 PM   #42
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 612
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

Mistake #1: Dealer not making floor fully aware of the situation.

Mistake #2: Floor not telling player that his hand will be killed when time is up.

Mistake #3: Player not asking what will happen if action not declared before time is up.

Mistake #4: Player declaring no action.
Schadenfred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 02:01 AM   #43
Pooh-Bah
 
steamraise's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: out of position
Posts: 4,295
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerBN View Post
The clock runs out and the floor says "Ok muck the players hand"

The dealer takes the guys cards & pushes the other player the pot.

The guy flips out saying it should have been a check etc etc.
The guy could have grabbed his cards and argued for a check.
Instead of letting the dealer take his cards and push the pot.
steamraise is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 06:27 AM   #44
RR
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NOLA
Posts: 11,326
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uDrewAtThat? View Post
I don't see how it can be a check... The floor cannot play a hand for a player and the player was obviously not in his seat (at least mentally) so the hand should be dead.

Besides, what's best for the game overall... A player who refuses to play his hand and tries to force the floor to play it for him tying up a seat, or that player leaving and giving his seat to someone who will actually play? I'd definitely argue it's the player who refuses to play the cards he's been dealt leaving.

He refused to play his hand.
No one else can play it for him.
Dead Hand.
Quote:
DEAD HANDS
1. Your hand is declared dead if:
.
.
.

(f) You have the clock on you when facing a bet or raise and exceed the specified time limit.
Looks like a check to me, but I have never seen this occur.
RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 02:26 PM   #45
centurion
 
uDrewAtThat?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: On the Button
Posts: 159
Re: Clock called on player first to act...dealer mucks players hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RR View Post
Looks like a check to me, but I have never seen this occur.
Where's the rule that says if time is called on you and you refuse to act prior to time expiring it's an implicit check? I can't find it...

The closest explicit rule I've seen is it's a dead hand.

Last edited by uDrewAtThat?; 06-20-2012 at 02:36 PM.
uDrewAtThat? is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive