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Old 06-25-2012, 03:32 AM   #1
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Calling a Raise

whats the official ruling on this as its happened a lot

action comes to me i raise preflop

players ahead of me/blinds did not see i raised or reraised

and they put chips in the middle past the line sometimes even telling the dealer they call but once the dealer awares them thats its like 7 more sir or something along that line

they said oh nvm and fold and take back their chips that they already put in
because they did not see my raise

is this something i just let slide or would it be a douchebag move if i called the floor

and said he called my raise?
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:37 AM   #2
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Re: Calling a Raise

Where I play, players are allowed to take back their bets as long as there has been no action behind them. If there has been, they're stuck.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:01 AM   #3
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Re: Calling a Raise

lol wut?

im saying if i raise preflop and the person next to act after me calls thinking nobody raised and puts the money into the pot but when he realizes someone raised he takes back his money and folds

do i just let it go and think nothing of it or do i have to call the floor over to make him call my raise?
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:09 AM   #4
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Re: Calling a Raise

Every house has different rules on this. Some places, it stays in, others it doesn't. You could ask the floor people at the room away from the table and they might be able to tell you. Robert's Rules of Poker allows for these bets to be brought back, generally, under the "gross misunderstanding" rule but even that is general and open to interpretation. It's unlikely your room as a more specific rule posted but they might have something in a book or something.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:38 AM   #5
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Re: Calling a Raise

Everyplace I have worked has hd some variation of this rule from RROP

Quote:
13. A player who bets or calls by releasing chips into the pot is bound by that action and must make the amount of the wager correct. (This also applies right before the showdown when putting chips into the pot causes the opponent to show the winning hand before the full amount needed to call has been put into the pot.) However, if you are unaware that the pot has been raised, you may withdraw that money and reconsider your action, provided that no one else has acted after you.
Though for some reason in recent years I have seen a trend in tournaments to not use any portion of this rule.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:58 AM   #6
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Re: Calling a Raise

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Originally Posted by psandman View Post
Everyplace I have worked has hd some variation of this rule from RROP



Though for some reason in recent years I have seen a trend in tournaments to not use any portion of this rule.
I'm seeing this as well. It seems to be normal to have people unaware of a raise forfeit some chips if they call the unraised amount. I cannot for the life of me find a reason other than punishing their lack of attention.
Even when it's the dealers fault for not announcing the raise the chips have to stay, wtf?
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:05 AM   #7
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Re: Calling a Raise

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Originally Posted by AceCroupier View Post
I'm seeing this as well. It seems to be normal to have people unaware of a raise forfeit some chips if they call the unraised amount. I cannot for the life of me find a reason other than punishing their lack of attention.
Even when it's the dealers fault for not announcing the raise the chips have to stay, wtf?
I really object to this tournament rule because I think either you have called or you haven't called. If we aren;t going to let the player take back his chips and fold ... why isn;t he required to complete the call? It doesn;t make any sense to me and I think its about appeasing nits who think there is something magical about chips going over a line.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:16 AM   #8
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Re: Calling a Raise

RRoP actually has conflicting rules on this: the "gross misunderstanding" rule allows for the player to take back his chips; and the "chips committed to the pot must stay in the pot" rule.

Sometimes, enforcement depends on the kind of game your playing. If it's a 1/1 or 1/2 "kiddie pool" type of game with green, unsophisticated players, it's understandable to give them plenty of leeway and allow them to take them back and reconsider their action.

I'd let this go, Op, and not get upset about it. If they're not following the action in a given hand, they're probably not paying attention to allot of other facets of the game, so it's probably +EV game for you. Let your customers have fun, don't trap them with technicalities. They'll let you steal plenty of small pots and blithely go to value town chasing that Ace when you get a good hand.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:40 AM   #9
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Re: Calling a Raise

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIFTKING View Post
.....is this something i just let slide or would it be a douchebag move if i called the floor and said he called my raise?
Decide whether you're playing Poker or Gotcha.
If it's Poker, let it slide.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:27 AM   #10
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Re: Calling a Raise

Grunch:

I consider it to be a douchebag move to try to nickel and dime your opponents over simple procedural errors.

In this case, I encourage them to pay attention but let them pull their bet back.

I'd rather have a bunch of people at my table who don't know the rules or the game, and have a chance at their stack (plus rebuys) through good play then screw them out of 7 or even 30 bucks (if they have to call your raise) and have them get up and leave because this isn't a 'fun' game.
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:09 PM   #11
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Re: Calling a Raise

Technically by the precise letter of the law their money has to stay in the pot. But I would never ever try to enforce that. Clearly, they thought they were calling. I always let them take it back. I've done it too. It would be douchey to insist IMO.
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:16 PM   #12
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Re: Calling a Raise

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_spike View Post
Technically by the precise letter of the law their money has to stay in the pot. But I would never ever try to enforce that. Clearly, they thought they were calling. I always let them take it back. I've done it too. It would be douchey to insist IMO.
What "law"?
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:49 PM   #13
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Re: Calling a Raise

ya i just let it slide cause i dont think much of it but its been happening so much

its starting to get annoying raise preflop with aces 2 people say they call until they realize how much the raise is etc..

but i guess thats poker
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:00 PM   #14
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Re: Calling a Raise

Yeah, seems to be OK for them to take back a $2 call, when the action is really $7. Don't sweat it.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:31 PM   #15
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Re: Calling a Raise

Where I play if they say "call" it's a call. If they just put the chips out there for the incorrect (earlier) amount, then they can take it back. The verbal declaration is binding (as it should be IMO) but putting out an incorrect number of chips (matching an earlier amount) is not.

An exception to this would be an oversize chip thrown in, which, if it would be a call of the full amount, stands. (i.e., the person can't say 'wait what how much oh sorry).

IOW if the action completes the call - verbal declaration, oversized chip - then it's a call. If not, the person is allowed to correct themselves.
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