The Breakroom: low-content gaming employee chatter thread

[psandman]

Originally Posted by cockpit

At the company I last worked at an outsider would have no chance, no chance at all, of being hired into my company if they had not been promoted or could demonstrate having had increasing responsibilities while working for a previous employer. We didn't want anyone else's dead wood and if your old company, who knew you far better than we could learn in an hour interview, didn't want to promote or give you more then we assumed there was a good reason.

Nobody looking to hire a poker dealer really cares if they "got promoted" because people in poker don't see moving to the floor as a promotion.

Sure it can help you move laterally. Look at poker room managers even the incompetant ones keep getting hired at new places.

If you want to be a floor person then yes getting your first experience as a floor person will help you get other floor jobs. But the problem with taking the dual rate job is that if you don't want to be a floor .... then you are gettiung nothing out of this.

BTW. The floor is not always a pay cut. My own experience with a floor position it was actually a pay increase.

I took an on call dealing job in a room that was very slow. I made very little money (My hourly tip rate was about 50% of what I make in other rooms) and I got very little time dealing (If the room was busy the FT dealers all wanted to stay so I would get sent home early ..... when it wasn't busy they would leave early leaving me to sit dead spreads ....)

Then we lost some floor people so I volunteered to help out. They made me a dual rate dealer/brush. As a brush I basically was a floorperson with a smaller hourly wage. In this room the floors/brush got a share of tournament tokes so I made a little bit there .... though the floors got the lions share. Pretty soon they stopped scheduling for anything except brushing. A couple months later they changed my job designation from dual rate dealer/brush to dual rate brush/floor supervisor. Now I was starting to make some more money. Then we got a new manager ... had some changes in the way the tournament money was handled and I started making even more money. Then they gave me a full time position (this is the primary benefit of moving to the floor .... it let me jump over a lot of dealers with more seniority for a FT position) plus the way we handled the tournament tokes I was out earning the dealers. 6 months after being made full time I was laid off (this is a major downside of working the floor ..... they go through floor people much faster than they go through dealers. It easier to be fired as a floor (though mine was for lack of business .... I saw multiple people fired for cause)

So in rooms where the dealing jobs are crappy enough ..... the floor can out earn the dealers especially if there is a tournament tokes or forced tipping out of the floor.

[pfapfap]

Hello and welcome!

Originally Posted by ACnoHollywood

#1 Essentially it's the 'draw this table to get crapped on for a half hour, suck it up to get your chance to do your real job on your next table.'

This is that attitude that most dealers take. Most dealers are miserable at these tables. This only feeds the dynamic. Myself, I love these tables. You can choose to accept that it's a miserable experience, or you can choose to reframe it so that it's not.

This is your 'real job' just as much as any other table on the floor. Your job is to adapt to the table conditions and be what the table needs. It's not the table's job to adjust to what you need. The long-term dealers who seem to be the most miserable and angry also seem to have the attitude that they run the table and these high stakes players are being jerkwads.

Nope.

The high stakes players run the high stakes tables. It's your job to navigate around the jerkwadiness. That's the job. Don't take it personally. Learn to do it well. Whatever they do, make it easier for them to do it. Be an asset to the table by giving them exactly what they want. Ideally, you're invisible. Picture yourself as the harried butler constantly following around the drunk millionaire at the party, putting your tray under his drink so he doesn't drop it on the floor.

This is your job. Try to figure out how to do it to the best of your abilities. Feel pride and joy from having done it well. Enjoy your job.

Originally Posted by ACnoHollywood

How do you deal with this on a daily basis? You are in the box where you are assured to make $0 in tips and be tormented for no reason other than that variance exists.

The tips do not matter at all. They are a gift, every single time. Do you get upset when one person drags a huge pot in 1/2 and forgets to tip you? You shouldn't. Even if you know that person would have thrown you $20 if he hadn't forgotten, this makes absolutely zero impact on your life. Your hourly rate for the past year should be fairly consistent. Even if you're only part-time, that's less than fifteen cents a day. Who cares about fifteen cents a day? Getting stiffed on this table makes no perceivable difference at all to your overall bottom line. In the long run, it all averages out with those times an overly-generous player splits a pot with you.

Originally Posted by ACnoHollywood

#2 In a 2/4 limit hold-em game, a pretty 21 year old girl is playing horribly and crushing the game. Old people are utterly tormenting her for playing bad cards and winning, as if she should start playing only good cards and losing. She starts crying at the table and leaves the game. What as a dealer can you do in this situation to stop this? Any tricks or tips on how to diffuse the situation?

Ugh, that's awful. This is a weak spot for me, too.

At the very least, I'd shame them afterwards. "You guys feel real good about yourselves, teasing a pretty young lady until she cried and ran away? This is why you came here today? Good job." And then that's it. Don't engage when they defend themselves, because there's nothing to defend and nothing for you to prove. Just say, "Okay." no matter what they fire back at you. Don't give them anything more to consider than what they just did to her.

I wouldn't go so far as to say something like, "I hope nobody treats your daughters that way," because that crosses a line and opens the door to a defensive, "I teach my daughter not to be so weak and stupid." Just lay out the immediate situation in front of them.

Funny thing is, on some level many people want to be degraded. I never like getting stern or angry at a table, but I find when I bust the balls of an angle-shooting non-regular, I get more tips. Not only will the angler throw me an extra buck on the next pot, but other players will randomly tip me for not taking any crap. So if you expose their miserable attitudes for what they are, you might get paid more for it.

I try to avoid it, because I'd rather not have the situation, than get credit for handling it well. The latter means I failed to prevent it from coming to that in the first place. But some people just need a mirror held up to their faces.

[youtalkfunny]

ACnoHollywood,

Interestingly, both of your questions are related. Someone already pointed out that the abuse the girl took, grew very gradually. The abuse you're getting in Q1 grew the same way, and it also needs to be "nipped in the bud".

What has always worked for me is to mimic the detectives in the 15th Detective Squad from NYPD Blue, when they seek cooperation from a witness or a suspect and only get hostility in return:

"Have I been discourteous or disrespectful to you in any way, and I just don't remember?"

They can stiff and grumble all they want, but the moment they throw something, you can bet your toke box that I'm stopping the action, establishing eye contact with them, and hitting them with that line. You've got to say it in a way that makes it clear that you're not going take any **** from them, leave them no doubt that their next outburst will again lead to the game coming to a halt, and that everyone will universally blame THEM for it.

Of course, I'm a very large man with a frown-shaped mustache, and can seem more intimidating when I get into "I'm not taking any **** from you" mode, even though I'm a big pussy underneath it all. But if you can sell it with firm eye contact and no quiver in your voice, this line works wonders.

EDIT TO ADD: Keep your voice calm and controlled when you say it, you don't want to be loud, you're not trying to escalate anything, you're trying to defuse it.

[Quadstriker]

#1: "Stop it right now, you bitter old *******."

#2: "Stop it right now, you bitter old *******."

How'd I do?

[psandman]

Originally Posted by Quadstriker

#1: "Stop it right now, you bitter old *******."

#2: "Stop it right now, you bitter old *******."

How'd I do?

While I like it. At least speaking of my place of employment .... I don't think it would go over to well with management.

[RockyMoose]

#1: From a player's perspective, I kinda like having players at the table who blame the dealer for bad cards. It says a lot about their game. I cringe when they're rude to the dealer, though. Just know that the other players see exactly what's going on and will appreciate how you handle it with composure.

When I encounter jerks like this, I like to keep in mind that this person is going through life as a miserable SOB and in the long run, he's just going to be sad and depressed far too often. He's going to suffer the consequences of his own actions, which is a worse fate than anything you could say or do to him.

[QuadsOverQuads]

Originally Posted by ACnoHollywood

#1 You are in the box of a high limit three handed game where no player tips for any reason. One player is constantly throwing cards either at you or near you, or when folding, they are moving their cards FARTHER away from their natural position as he is playing the hand - in order to make you reach. You are fast, competent, and polite. This player obviously dislikes you because you are dealing him losing hands. In my house and on my shift, the floor will not protect the dealer from a player abusing him. Essentially it's the 'draw this table to get crapped on for a half hour, suck it up to get your chance to do your real job on your next table.'

How do you deal with this on a daily basis? You are in the box where you are assured to make $0 in tips and be tormented for no reason other than that variance exists.

*** SLOW DOWN ***

As in: slow the game to the absolute lowest possible number of hands you can deal during that down without getting fired.

You are the dealer at this table, you control their game pace COMPLETELY, which means you COMPLETELY control the hourly income of these players.

Make the point until they get the point.

Once they start to behave, let their good behavior earn them a little faster pace. If they act up again, slow it down again. Repeat as necessary.



q/q

[bav]

Originally Posted by QuadsOverQuads

As in: slow the game to the absolute lowest possible number of hands you can deal during that down without getting fired.

The guy already stated the floor will not support the dealers. And you're assuming the players will figure out the dealer is doing this on purpose. So when he intentionally slows the table, and one of the players quietly goes and tells the floor "your dealer is intentionally slowing the game--watch the next few hands", what's going to happen when the floor sees it's true?

[QuadsOverQuads]

Originally Posted by bav

The guy already stated the floor will not support the dealers. And you're assuming the players will figure out the dealer is doing this on purpose. So when he intentionally slows the table, and one of the players quietly goes and tells the floor "your dealer is intentionally slowing the game--watch the next few hands", what's going to happen when the floor sees it's true?

He will honestly, and correctly, inform the floor that the player in Seat XXX is verbally abusing him, throwing cards, mucking away from the dealer, and doing every possible nasty thing he can to cause problems. As such, he is doing his job very, very carefully and 100% by-the-book because he is afraid that even the slightest problem with this player may result in a major incident at the table.

It is very difficult to get written up for following procedures correctly. And provided his speed on other tables is fine, he will absolutely not get written up for one slow down that specifically involved a highly abusive and highly disruptive player who was deliberately trying to cause problems (and who should have been dealt with by the floor). I would also add that the floor may not necessarily want to draw too much attention from the shift manager when it comes to his own failure to deal with an abusive player.


q/q

[psandman]

I don't think slowing the game down accomplishes anything.

You think that the players think this way:

"Gee this dealer has slowed the game down to a crawl .... it must be because he is a good dealer who is sick and tired of the abuse we give him and the lack of tips ..... I guess I should treat him better and start tipping him"

I think the players think this way:

"These ****ing dealers suck .... I can't believe they think we should tip them. We should get some trained monkeys in here cause they would be able to deal better"

[QuadsOverQuads]

Originally Posted by psandman

I don't think slowing the game down accomplishes anything.

In my experience, it's actually just about the only way to get through to some of these high limit guys.

They may not understand manners, civility or human decency, but they absolutely do understand a 30% decrease in their hourly EV.

q/q

[RockyMoose]

Originally Posted by QuadsOverQuads

Once they start to behave, let their good behavior earn them a little faster pace. If they act up again, slow it down again. Repeat as necessary.

There's a well-known psychology book, written by a dog trainer, that basically explains ways to get people to do what you want by providing or withholding positive reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is avoided. I'm sure a dealer, over several hours, could absolutely influence a player's behaviors in how he mucks cards, etc. The player would have no idea he was being "trained".

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Dog.../dp/0553380397

[NewLiveFish]

Originally Posted by RockyMoose

There's a well-known psychology book, written by a dog trainer, that basically explains ways to get people to do what you want by providing or withholding positive reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is avoided. I'm sure a dealer, over several hours, could absolutely influence a player's behaviors in how he mucks cards, etc. The player would have no idea he was being "trained".

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Dog.../dp/0553380397

Unlike a dog, people who like to torment dealers get more pleasure out of it than the rewards of playing more hands. The dealer doesn't have hours. They have 30 minutes.

[psandman]

Originally Posted by RockyMoose

There's a well-known psychology book, written by a dog trainer, that basically explains ways to get people to do what you want by providing or withholding positive reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is avoided. I'm sure a dealer, over several hours, could absolutely influence a player's behaviors in how he mucks cards, etc. The player would have no idea he was being "trained".

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Dog.../dp/0553380397

Somehow I doubt management will approve of my tossing a dog biscuit to a player because he mucked his cards the cards the right way.......

[UbinTook]

Originally Posted by NewLiveFish

Unlike a dog, people who like to torment dealers get more pleasure out of it than the rewards of playing more hands. The dealer doesn't have hours. They have 30 minutes.

I love players who try to torment me.
Becasue i dont care, or rather i dont allow it to torment me. The calmer I stay the more aggravated THEY get.