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Old 01-07-2011, 04:32 PM   #31
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

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Didn't same limits quietly died all over Vegas long time ago? Only few still remember 40 game at the Mirage and 20 at the Mirage and V is pretty dead too.
10-20, 20-40, and 40-80 all ran at the Mirage at one time and have been a victim of no-limit hold 'em's takeover.


In my last survey of the Strip, there were 94 no-limit games and 23 fixed limit games. So, about 20% of the hold 'em games on the Strip are still fixed limit. That's not an inconsequential amount, especially when you consider that fixed limit generates more rake for the house than no-limit.

Among off-Strip rooms, fixed limit outnumbered no-limit by 37 to 33. So, in total, fixed limit made up about 1/3 of the hold 'em games in Las Vegas. That seems like a market worth fighting for.

In that October survey, the Bellagio had more fixed limit hold 'em games than 1-2 no-limit. In fact they had more fixed limit games than any room had 1-2 no-limit except the Venetian and MGM (also tied with Golden Nugget).
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Old 01-07-2011, 04:45 PM   #32
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

Just got this update from the Bellagio Poker Facebook :

Bellagio Poker Room The new limit games have been a great success. There are currently three $40-$80 games, two $20-$40 games, and one $10-$20 game in progress. Bellagio is also offering double comp points for these games through February. Come down and join the action.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:08 PM   #33
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

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If this is true, then I can only hope that Venetian takes over the $15-30 game. I guess it's too early to panic yet, but just from reading this I'm already thinking about changing my next trip to stay at Venetian instead.

Actually, starting today the Venetian is running a special promo for 15-30 and 30-60 Limit games. 15- 30 will have a 2 dollar max rake and $ 2.50 per hour in comps. Our 30 - 60 game will have a 4 dollar time drop per half hour and also give $ 2.50 per hour in comps. This promo is scheduled to run through January, but Kathy Raymond has made it known that if these games get a strong base, there is a possibility she will continue to run the promo after this month.

With the strong base of 8-16 Limit players that we have, it should really funnel into these games especially with the promo we have going. As always, if you have any questions, please let me know and I will be happy to help.

Tommy
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:26 PM   #34
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

Competition is the essence of poker room improvement.

Damn... I love this country!
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:39 PM   #35
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

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Originally Posted by 3Rivers View Post
Just got this update from the Bellagio Poker Facebook :

Bellagio Poker Room The new limit games have been a great success. There are currently three $40-$80 games, two $20-$40 games, and one $10-$20 game in progress. Bellagio is also offering double comp points for these games through February. Come down and join the action.
Playing the 40 game with $10's, 10 and 20 with reds?
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:57 PM   #36
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

I'm a regular 30/60 player and I'm in favor of this although it definitely has the potential to make a horrible 40/80 game and a great 20/40 game which isnt really good. However, the "big" game which is either 60/120, 80/160, or 100/200 has been struggling for a while and in some part the demand for 40/80 is a reaction to that as some of those players have been putting in hours at 30/60 and fish are weary of the big game because it tends to break quickly and be a pretty poor game frequently. There are a lot of players that come through bellagio and will play as high as they feel like so if there is 40/80 going they will play it. I hope and also believe that this will be a good change and the 20/40 will be a great game and the 40/80 will still be a good game. We may lose some of the regulars that are good for the game to 20/40, but in general the fish who occasionally play the big game will likely chose 40/80 instead making that a pretty good game.

The interesting development though is what was posted about Venetian making another attempt to steal the game at this time of some uncertainty for the bellagio. Also, I have heard from the floor people at aria that as of today they are starting a "regular" 20/40 game on fridays and saturdays, which is another attempt to steal the limit and mix games from bellagio. I do have a place in my heart for bellagio but they do a lot of stupid things and management does seem to be actively trying to destroy their poker room. Venetian is smart about the ways in which they try and bring games but I have never liked that room. I would be happy if Aria could steal the games like they stole the big mix game, although I dont think it will happen any time soon. Aria does a good job of accomodating their players and treating them right. It's a shame they don't normally have great action. It's just difficult to move a game based on people who have played the same place for a decade. The game wouldnt be the same with half of them, you need them all to move. I hope the limit community understands that the worst thing possible would be splitting the game up among two or three places. If it is going to move it needs to all move to one location.

There are my longwinded thoughts. I'll be heading to bellagio soon to check out the new limits. (I played until 4am last night and actively tried to kick up the 30/60 game last night to no avail) I'll also probably take a walk over to Aria if they run the 20/40 or 40/80 to check it out.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:59 PM   #37
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

Also from what I have heard the time for 40/80 will still be $6/down because it would be unreasonable to impose a limit change AND raise the time charge. I also heard 20/40 will be a time game with $5/down but I'm not positive on that. That's a positive change as time games are better and cheaper for player as long as the time charge is small.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:33 PM   #38
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

As of 5:30pm (Eastern) the Aria is listing one 15-30 game going.

I believe that's new.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:36 PM   #39
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

overall I'm used to the 5/10, 10/20, 20/40 structure as an "east coaster" so I'm not sure what I think about this, but I personally hate that i can't find a 15-30 game around because that is where I'd like to play before moving up to 20/40
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:49 PM   #40
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

I think it would have been easier to start up a pink chip $7.50/$15 LHE game to bridge the gap. Its a fun game and the chip structure is right for 15/30 and 30/60.

10/20 LHE is pretty awful as a 2 chip/4 chip game and is dying at FW as a result. I think the B would do better to offer a 12/24 $3 chip game rather than the 10/20.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:42 PM   #41
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

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Originally Posted by Mr Rick View Post
I think it would have been easier to start up a pink chip $7.50/$15 LHE game to bridge the gap. Its a fun game and the chip structure is right for 15/30 and 30/60.

10/20 LHE is pretty awful as a 2 chip/4 chip game and is dying at FW as a result. I think the B would do better to offer a 12/24 $3 chip game rather than the 10/20.
I like pink chips, but I have never seen them in Vegas. Pretty sure the B doesn't have them since they never gave me any when playing Blackjack, which is what they were really made for in AC anyway. I don't think I have ever seen $3 chips around either. The 8/16 is a fine game with $2 chips; The V just took that game because the B discouraged it.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:20 PM   #42
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

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Originally Posted by 3Rivers View Post
Just got this update from the Bellagio Poker Facebook :

Bellagio Poker Room The new limit games have been a great success. There are currently three $40-$80 games, two $20-$40 games, and one $10-$20 game in progress. Bellagio is also offering double comp points for these games through February. Come down and join the action.
I was at the Bellagio at 2:30pm. These games were running then.

I was impressed they got three 40-80 games going.

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Originally Posted by IFSATG View Post
Playing the 40 game with $10's, 10 and 20 with reds?
Of course.



Also, the Venetian got a 15-30 running in the late afternoon.

They were promoting the game strongly.
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Old 01-08-2011, 03:13 AM   #43
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

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Originally Posted by PUSATFH View Post
ok, due to popular demand, please, please, please raise the buy-in limit on your 1/2 NL game. The B didn't even used to have it, but then for some reason decided to introduce it and make it the smallest game in town. one extreme to the other. $300, $400, $500...anything but $200!
As someone who spent the majority of his vegas poker time in the bellagio playing 1/2NL, PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS.

There is absolutely NO reason to raise the max cap on the 1/2 game. In fact, I am a big fan of the 50minbb-100maxbb buyin cap on NL games for low stakes NL. I'm tired of rooms spreading 1/3 33.3minbb/100bb max and having 3-6 players buy in for the min.

If you want more cash on the table, play higher.

Also, bellagio, afaik, is the least raked game with only a $4 rake and no BBJ.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:11 AM   #44
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

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Actually, starting today the Venetian is running a special promo for 15-30 and 30-60 Limit games. 15- 30 will have a 2 dollar max rake and $ 2.50 per hour in comps. Our 30 - 60 game will have a 4 dollar time drop per half hour and also give $ 2.50 per hour in comps. This promo is scheduled to run through January, but Kathy Raymond has made it known that if these games get a strong base, there is a possibility she will continue to run the promo after this month.

With the strong base of 8-16 Limit players that we have, it should really funnel into these games especially with the promo we have going. As always, if you have any questions, please let me know and I will be happy to help.

Tommy
As usual, the Venetian is the absolute stone cold nuts when it comes to poker.
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:31 AM   #45
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Re: bellagio changing their limit games

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Originally Posted by 3Rivers View Post
Just got this update from the Bellagio Poker Facebook :

Bellagio Poker Room The new limit games have been a great success. There are currently three $40-$80 games, two $20-$40 games, and one $10-$20 game in progress. Bellagio is also offering double comp points for these games through February. Come down and join the action.
At one point it was 3 40/80 games, 3 20/40 games, and 2 10/20 games. An 80 game also got going late but I doubt there was still 3 40 games at the same time.
------

Couple of thoughts:

Still not sure how this is all going to play out. I was initially hoping the 10/20 game just would never go and basically it would be the same crew playing slightly higher. I thought there was a chance of this because I really don't see any of the 8/16 regulars leaving the Venetian for the Bellagio. After tonight I am a lot less confident this will be the case.

If I still played live mostly, I would be slightly worried (more as a 20 player than 40). I like the time charge at 20 for a few reasons. One of which some of the 15 regulars aren't going to like, which is the stronger players are going to refuse to chop now. This might send people towards the 10/20, which as people alluded to would divide up the shrinking Bellagio limit population.

Last night the 20/40 game (at least the one I was in) played more like a 30 game than a 15. I talked to someone I'm friendly with at the 10 game for about 5 minutes and it seemed more like a 4/8 game than a 15 game (I guess it would have been a bad 4/8 game but you get the point). Like 60% of the table was strangers as where the next two levels are like 2 max per table most of the time. Granted it was one of the busier weekends on Vegas so I'm not sure on how much to infer from this although the 20 game being tougher is probably not a good sign.

I'm not sure what to think about the Venetian trying to steal the 15 game. Its a great move by them, but as was previously mentioned, I'm not sure splitting up the limit action between properties is the best answer. There just isn't the player pool for that. I suspect maybe the V does steal the 15 game and the 20 and 40 at the B becomes two varying degrees of toughness of the old 30 game.
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