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Old 07-10-2008, 12:20 PM   #1
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Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

This is convoluted and merely hypothetical... but it's based on true events (from a year or two ago; all the angleshooting threads going on recently reminded me about it).

What actually happened: $2-$5 spread-limit hold 'em (gotta love CO poker!), and we're heads-up at the river. The board reads something like AJJT5 and I have AJ (the T and 5 might've been different cards, but I've got the second nuts). I'm OOP and bet $5 into my opponent who says something like "nice hand" and holds 5 white chips out towards the center of the table without releasing them into the pot.

I'm smart enough to realize that this is a classic angleshot, where he wants me to expose my hand and then he'll fold instead of actually calling the bet. After it's clear that I'm not going to expose my hand, guy laughs, says "nice hand" again, and still doesn't release his chips. Finally, after a good 20 or 30 seconds, chips hit the table and I insta-show my boat and win the pot.

Hypothetical: what if, instead of exposing my hand like he wanted to, I pretended I was bluffing / acted like I was going to muck ("Oh man, I've got nothing" combined with holding my cards in that pre-muck position) and managed to incite a raise... Would he have deserved it? Would I have just stooped to his level? Keep in mind that I would follow my surely Oscar-worthy performance up with a 3-bet :P

Last edited by elitegimp; 07-10-2008 at 12:21 PM. Reason: "And" is not "an"
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Old 07-10-2008, 12:50 PM   #2
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

Your "controversial plan" might give the schmuck what he deserves, but it also just adds to the large amount of unacceptable behavior commonplace in todays' cardrooms.

I'd just sit there waiting, and after a point I'd say something to the effect of your angle shot won't work and I do believe the floor would like to know about your blatant attempts at cheating, let's call him now... or something like that. The word "cheating" would certainly get his and everyone else's attention real fast.

Or you could just kick him in the nuts.

al
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:06 PM   #3
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

Don't stoop to his level....

Just wait him out.
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:31 PM   #4
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

^ What they said. Being a d*ck back doesn't really help the situation. You did the right thing by just waiting him out. I usually remind people like this that, "I've got all day, but the other good people here at the table might not appreciate you wasting their time."
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:47 PM   #5
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PwnShortStacks View Post
^ What they said. Being a d*ck back doesn't really help the situation. You did the right thing by just waiting him out. I usually remind people like this that, "I've got all day, but the other good people here at the table might not appreciate you wasting their time."
I like it...mind if I steal it?
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:48 PM   #6
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

I can't think of a time when the "oh man you caught me" about-to-muck card-hovering thing was actually a bluff, at least when accompanied by a speech. It's always a monster.

Heads-up, I don't think any of this is cheating. Just low-level goombas who think they're better than they are and that nobody's ever thought of any of this before.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:14 PM   #7
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

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Originally Posted by Beaudog View Post
I like it...mind if I steal it?
Go nuts. It should help to alert the less experienced people at the table that you're not the one being a jerk.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:48 PM   #8
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

1)You bet $5 on the river?

2)If you angleshoot the angleshooter, you have to beware of the guy who angleshoots the guy who angleshot the angleshooter.
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:00 PM   #9
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bando View Post
1)If you angleshoot the angleshooter, you have to beware of the guy who angleshoots the guy who angleshot the angleshooter.
But if the guy angleshooting the angleshooter knows that the angelshooter might angleshoot his angleshooting the angleshooter, couldn't he just angleshoot the angleshooter angleshooting him?
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:02 PM   #10
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bando View Post
1)You bet $5 on the river?

...
I think he meant the $2-$5 spead limit literally. So $5 was the maximum bet.

Oh yea, OP, don't do that. Nothing makes a jerk look more like a jeck than letting them hang themselves out to dry for all to see.
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:04 PM   #11
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfold View Post
But if the guy angleshooting the angleshooter knows that the angelshooter might angleshoot his angleshooting the angleshooter, couldn't he just angleshoot the angleshooter angleshooting him?
My head asplode.
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:06 PM   #12
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfold
But if the guy angleshooting the angleshooter knows that the angelshooter might angleshoot his angleshooting the angleshooter, couldn't he just angleshoot the angleshooter angleshooting him?
If one doctor doctors another doctor does the doctor who doctors the doctor doctor the doctor the way the doctor he is doctoring doctors? Or does the doctor doctor the way the doctor who doctors doctors?
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:22 PM   #13
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

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Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle View Post
If one doctor doctors another doctor does the doctor who doctors the doctor doctor the doctor the way the doctor he is doctoring doctors? Or does the doctor doctor the way the doctor who doctors doctors?
Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
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Old 07-10-2008, 04:06 PM   #14
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle View Post
If one doctor doctors another doctor does the doctor who doctors the doctor doctor the doctor the way the doctor he is doctoring doctors? Or does the doctor doctor the way the doctor who doctors doctors?
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/eb/TenthDoctor******170px-TenthDoctor.jpg[/IMG]

What's he got to do with anything?
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Old 07-10-2008, 04:07 PM   #15
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Re: Angleshooting an Angleshooter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bando View Post
1)You bet $5 on the river?
It was $2-$5 spread limit, so my options were limited to

* Open fold
* Check
* Bet $2
* Bet $3
* Bet $4
* Bet $5

I thought betting $5 was my best play, but I'm open to strategy critiques... keep in mind that this happened a while ago and I don't remember the villian's playing style at all.

Responding to everyone: thanks for the thoughts. At the time, I was somewhat entertained by villian's antics (it was my first time seeing something I'd read about in action!), but afterwards (drive home-ish) I was a little frustrated with him wasting a minute or two of possible playing time to try to save $5. That's almost another hand :P I didn't know if other people at the table would think "hahaha, that guy is getting what he deserves" or if they'd just think "wow, two jerks wasting our time instead of just one." Obviously it's the latter, so I'll stick to sitting quietly or using PwnShortStacks's line.
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