Hi people, thought I would ask a question for the more experienced live pros:

About me. I used to play online as a $400nl pro for 5 years, 2005-2010 and I have maybe around 100-150 hours at live cash lifetime, so I have experience but wouldn’t say I’m an experienced live player by any means.

So last night I had been playing live at my local casino in a GBP £1/£1 game. After 11 hours the table broke and we moved into the back room where a self dealt game continued. One person who was not playing dealt the game, on the 7th hand this occurred:

I raise UTG to £4, four handed with AQ and BTTN and SB call.
Flop is:

9d-5c-7h (Pot £13)

We all check and the turn comes:

9d-5c-7h-6d (Pot £13)

Checked to the BTTN who bets £7, SB calls and I muck. Turn comes:

9d-5c-7h-6d-7d (Pot £27)

SB bets £15.
After about 30 seconds, BTTN announces, “I don’t care if you have the straight I’m all in for £22”

Dealer says £7 more to call, SB then tables over his hand:

9c-9s

Then confidently announces full house. Dealer says you need to put in £7 more.
About 30 seconds later the BTTN tables his hand:

Ac7c

Slamming it down and negatively announcing, “fuking trips” Then he goes into a rage about how it’s his pot as the SB didn’t call the last £7 so he is taking the pot.

After a brief stating of somewhat ruling(which I didn’t agree with), SB’s hand is declared dead and the pot is awarded to the BTTN.

I don’t know this guy, he got unlucky all night and played good and spoke broken English. I think he was Austrian. I’m feeling a bit in disbelief about the ruling on the hand and how horrible it was to have squabbling in a pot without a house dealer.
Floor re-affirms the ruling given and the pot is awarded to the BTTN. I quit the game and state I don’t wish to play in a game with such shaky rulings and squabbling at the table.
After the table breaks.

My thoughts are, who doesn’t call 3rd nuts for 7 BB’s more into a 64 BB pot! The guy confidently announced his hand with authority, I thought he was a live noob and just thought he didn’t need to put the last £7 in as the pot was his, and he didn’t even get more than a minute to put his 7 blind in.
To me he called when announcing his hand and any decent floor person would make that decision, but what do I know….as said and I washed up online pro with not much live experience.

Sorry for such a long winded post and good luck to you all.

to my understanding he has to say 'call', or physically put the chips/cash in the pot to be awarded the pot.
if his hand went into the muck, and he did'nt do one of the two things mentioned, it's a dead hand, and it's too late to call now.
you can't muck a hand, even if tabled for all to see, and even if it's the nuts, not having called, and then call after the fact. the hand is dead if it's face down in the muck. I'm not sure exactly how this scenario unfolded, so don't want to say if the ruling was good or not. If his hand was still live, ie. face up on the felt, there is no legit reason to rule it dead, as he has time to make a decision up to the point someone calls a clock and it runs out w/ no decision. at what point did bttn assert that it was a dead hand?? your post doesn't make it clear at all. if it was after it hit the muck, he's prolly right. i can't imagine why they would rule a live hand dead suddenly if the action was still on the dude w/ 99.
the idea that "it was a boat, of course i'm calling; it's assumed, i don't need to say call or put the $ in." doesn't fly, sorry.
btw, bttn may be kinda a douche for trying to get SB on a technicality if he didnt muck first, and call later.
you may get more input in B&M.

Thanks for starting the thread off

The hand was tabled, not mucked and not much time was given as stated(not that he needed time with the practical nuts).
I don't want to say anything more and bias the thread but the ruling was that he had not put the chips in the pot and officially made the call.

*Grunch
Any card room I've played in announcing ur hand and tabling it is not a call. With that being said his hand is still live when he turns over 9's full of sevens and announces his hand, it is also still his action. When the opponent tables his hand and announces trips the action is still on the guy with the boat and his hand is still live( unless he lost control of his cards or threw them in). It's still on him and he should still be able to call. The real question is, if the dealer told him he needs to put 7 more in the pot, WTF is he doing for 30 seconds and why the hell doesn't he do it?

"So I was going down the highway at 70 mph when I see the road blocked ahead with an overturned semi"

"Why didn't you stop?"

"There was a wreck ahead, of course I stopped"

"Did you apply the breaks?"

"There was a semi blocking the road!!"

"Did you hit the breaks?"

"You think I'm nuts, the road was blocked?"

"When do they say you get out of the hospital?"

____

Say "call" or put in chips. Or hit the breaks.

So when did he call?

yeah i am of the understanding that you have to say call before you table your hand

a little off thread but where was this played?

If he never acted, other than to show his hand, dealer should continue to say "action on you, sir" until he takes an action or someone calls clock and he times out. As far as i can tell, the hand is still live now,a nd it is still his action.

Maybe he didn't understand?

What casino were you playing at that after a game breaks you go into the back room of a casino to play a self-dealt game? After that you can't even get a decent ruling in the back room of said casino? So strange...

It seems SB's hand has been declared dead because he exposed it prematurely. The rules for exposing your hand prior to showdown vary from room to room and can be categorised into:
1. hand will be killed
2. hand may be killed
3. has no effect

My experience is that the European rooms tend towards 1 & 2 whereas North American rooms tend towards 2 & 3. I personally think 1 (killing all exposed hands) is a terrible rule but I also think if you are going to play in a room it's your responsibility to know the rules. I still, however, think that SB got screwed and BTN is a scumbag for trying to collect a pot without the best hand. Even if this room does enforce rule 1 above I think pot should be awarded to SB given that he is not a local and the game is not official.

I don't fully understand the standing of a casino back room game (and have difficulty believing a licenses casino would allow unlicenced gambling on their premises) but it would make sense that such a game would use the same rules as official room.

My local room (casino cosmopol in Stockholm) used to apply rule 1 but now applies rule 2. I saw a very similar scenario a couple of weeks ago in a $4000 pot; it was established that the guy who exposed his hand when facing an all-in river bet did not say call but the floor ruled that given the strength of his hand and the pot odds it was deemed that his intent was to call.

OP didn't explicitly state it, but I imagine the SB argued along the lines "of course I intended to call" after tabling his hand and before it was mucked. I think he should get the pot.

The dealer or someone at the table (since it's a self-dealt game) should have asked if his action was a call or a fold. Button is a douche.

Sorry for the late reply, did another short 6 hour session there last night/this morning. Thanks for the responses.

Session was at the G Casino Card Room at Sheffield, England. The game was still in the card room, but in the closed section, under cameras and without a house dealer.

My guess would be his diluted English and the fact that he was probably very mentally fatigued after playing around 10 hours, but yeah hand through table SNAPCALL

I have played about 70 hours in this room during the last month. I have turned my hand up before showdown when the action was still on me in another situation to try and get a reaction from an opponent, so I know the hand would not declared dead because of this. I understand that different rooms will vary the ruling on different things. That is a valid point, but I do not feel a varying rule would be valid in this situation anywhere in the world, hence my disbelief, disappointment and the creation of this thread.

The SB argued this in his broken English, he was having a rough night and no other regular would stick up for him, so I decided I should intervene, to no avail! The BTTN was having a tough night too, but he should not have acted in such a baby like manner and demanded the pot when the SB’s hand was still live and the action was still on him imo and according to all the replies in this thread.