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Why has psychology been overlooked Why has psychology been overlooked

09-27-2014 , 10:40 PM
As to where psych can contribute to poker players (especially mass-tabling online guys), interventions to improve present moment awareness, avoid autopilot, maintain focus for long periods of time, and switch attention efficiently are probably going to be of substantial benefit and are often overlooked in these discussions. And for those that take issue with the way psychologists do research, there's some pretty compelling neuro-evidence building recently with respect to these interventions that might appeal more to your quantitative taste-buds.
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10-01-2014 , 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliquantum
As to where psych can contribute to poker players (especially mass-tabling online guys), interventions to improve present moment awareness, avoid autopilot, maintain focus for long periods of time, and switch attention efficiently are probably going to be of substantial benefit and are often overlooked in these discussions. And for those that take issue with the way psychologists do research, there's some pretty compelling neuro-evidence building recently with respect to these interventions that might appeal more to your quantitative taste-buds.
Glad to have the input of one more of a Psychological background I fear it is such a misunderstood subject.

As to your propositions as to how psych can ( and most likely inadvertently has ) contributed to poker these are the exact points I had been trying to emphasise. There are extensive areas of poker in that pysch can and has contributed positively, though often people are unaware as to this due to having no familiarisation with psychology itself. So in turn, psych becomes a somewhat misunderstood tool, that if properly understood could be greatly capitalised on for multiple reasons, some of which you have illustrated above.

And for the record, just because a Psychologists may not have an MD we can still be Doctors damn it!

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Originally Posted by onlyamonkey
I described how I think psychology can contribute to poker. I also described why I don't think it's very important. You responded to the critique with pointless drivel and now because I have yet received any good response and am complaining about it, I have mental issues and/or is too stupid to comprehend the importance of psychology in poker, which you yourself have totally failed to provide me with.


I would love for you to psychoanalyse me. You would probably do better than a random person.
Refer to Aliquans post above for some more accurate means in which psych can contribute to poker positively.

On a side note I would Psycho analyse you in the same manner Dr.Lectre does to Will Graham before he questions his sanity and is put in jail

Last edited by Chanty57; 10-01-2014 at 09:36 PM.
Why has psychology been overlooked Quote
10-02-2014 , 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanty57
Refer to Aliquans post above for some more accurate means in which psych can contribute to poker positively.
You just got put in your place. It's remarkable that you didn't leave in shame and I applaud you for that, but I'm not going to pretend you didn't just soil yourself in public.

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On a side note I would Psycho analyse you in the same manner Dr.Lectre does to Will Graham before he questions his sanity and is put in jail
You are the archetype of a psych major: someone who needs help themselves and is in no way fit to help others. Given how easy you resort to namecalling and death threats not only tells tales of immaturity, but also of a mediocre mind with a big ego.

This discussion is over for my part.
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10-02-2014 , 07:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyamonkey
You just got put in your place. It's remarkable that you didn't leave in shame and I applaud you for that, but I'm not going to pretend you didn't just soil yourself in public.


You are the archetype of a psych major: someone who needs help themselves and is in no way fit to help others. Given how easy you resort to namecalling and death threats not only tells tales of immaturity, but also of a mediocre mind with a big ego.

This discussion is over for my part.
I think you are looking to far into things and becoming rude and arrogant over what was actually a light hearted joke, Lectre actually rather likes Will Graham so there was no threat involved Also as for being put in my place I was agreeing with one of a psych background on points I had previously touched on, so I don't see the purpose of your statement.

And for the record I am not in the progress of a psych major, I am not in college I am in University There is a lot of built up anger in you I feel, and getting it out through rudeness on internet forums seems to be your way of venting, what ever works for you I guess, but I was not being abusive to you, I am actually kind of upset now
Why has psychology been overlooked Quote
10-02-2014 , 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliquantum
As to where psych can contribute to poker players (especially mass-tabling online guys), interventions to improve present moment awareness, avoid autopilot, maintain focus for long periods of time, and switch attention efficiently are probably going to be of substantial benefit and are often overlooked in these discussions. And for those that take issue with the way psychologists do research, there's some pretty compelling neuro-evidence building recently with respect to these interventions that might appeal more to your quantitative taste-buds.
I understand psychologists have knowledge in the areas you listed. They understand the functions and sometimes they might even figure out the main underlying reasons of the behavior. But do they really have scientific backup when it comes to "curing" the condition, ie making an actual long term change in the person's life?

I really doubt that. I doubt it because a personality is a complex built up puzzle of behaviors that roots itself back in history of the individual. It's like picking up buddhism when you're 35. It's like "WHAT THE HELL MAN?". "You took a life to build up your view and way of life and now you're just abandoning everything to jump on this new thing which will totally redefine your life and invalidate the conclusions about life you've reached so far. How thought through are you really? How insecure must a person be to make drastic changes in their life?"

I'm not sure I'm getting my point across here very well. I'm skeptical to psychology as a practical solution to real life problems, but I'm very interested and respectful in the mapping and categorizing of the human functions the practitioners do and I realize the severe future importance of the field.
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10-02-2014 , 09:23 PM
^ I think we may be talking about different things.

With respect to personality and consciousness and learned behaviour etc, I really can't dispute that it's an infinitely complex web that's basically impossible to untangle. And debating positivists on these matters is something that's gone on for eons and is not going to get resolved on a message board. And I'll even conceed that the quantitative means that psychologists use in research are often based on arbitrary metrics that aren't calibrated against real-world, overt phenomena. Sometimes we have to make some assumptions in our quantitative work, and pair it up with anecdotes, qualitative data, and experience. What I can tell you as a practitioner and researcher is that these methods are better than not trying at all and have lead to some very important insights into human behaviour and consciousness. Is it messy? Sure. My colleagues and I have a mantra to "lean into the discomfort of the work".

What I was actually referring to though was neuro-imaging data that suggests PHYSICAL changes to the human brain following attention/awareness interventions. Greater gyrification and thickening of white matter in implicated brain regions, less activity in the default mode network (daydreaming / lack of present moment awareness) of the brain and in the amygdala (fear and emotion processing), and greater neural activation in attention related brain regions. I thought that "hard" science might be a better sell to the posters who believe psychology is mumbo-jumbo.
Why has psychology been overlooked Quote
10-03-2014 , 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliquantum
What I was actually referring to though was neuro-imaging data that suggests PHYSICAL changes to the human brain following attention/awareness interventions. Greater gyrification and thickening of white matter in implicated brain regions, less activity in the default mode network (daydreaming / lack of present moment awareness) of the brain and in the amygdala (fear and emotion processing), and greater neural activation in attention related brain regions. I thought that "hard" science might be a better sell to the posters who believe psychology is mumbo-jumbo.
If you took a modern PC back to the Victorian age: does a person learning that "pulling this bit out, makes it stop working!!!" or "putting a light bulb across this bit makes it light up!!!" really mean anything in terms understanding the workings of the PC?

Not to say Psychology is totally useless, but I think future generations will look back on it as modern Chemists look back at Alchemy.

Juk
Why has psychology been overlooked Quote
10-03-2014 , 07:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jukofyork
If you took a modern PC back to the Victorian age: does a person learning that "pulling this bit out, makes it stop working!!!" or "putting a light bulb across this bit makes it light up!!!" really mean anything in terms understanding the workings of the PC?
In isolation, maybe not. We build knowledge by accumulating data from multiple sources. Once we take this data, then see the difference between people with damage to these brain regions vs people who train them, or see that they robustly outperform control subjects in a number of different attention related tasks, or hear them personally talk about how they can feel the affect of these interventions in their daily lives, then yes, I'd have to say that does say something in terms of our understanding.

The only reason I pointed to neuro-imaging evidence is that it was probably the least likely to get slaughtered on a forum full of professional gamblers where a quantitative/positivist bias is probable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jukofyork
Not to say Psychology is totally useless, but I think future generations will look back on it as modern Chemists look back at Alchemy.
I don't think the time warp argument is very compelling. I think we can all agree that our understanding today will look primitive in future generations - I hope so for humanity's sake! What is the alternative? Do we give up on understanding the human condition because it's too messy and complicated, and because we do not have flawless methods?

Again, I'd rather not get into an epistemological and ontological ****-storm in here because I know how entrenched all of us are in our positions on that matter. I was merely pointing out the area of psychology I thought to be of most relevance to poker players that traditionally gets very little airtime in these discussions.
Why has psychology been overlooked Quote
10-03-2014 , 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliquantum
^ I think we may be talking about different things.

With respect to personality and consciousness and learned behaviour etc, I really can't dispute that it's an infinitely complex web that's basically impossible to untangle. And debating positivists on these matters is something that's gone on for eons and is not going to get resolved on a message board. And I'll even conceed that the quantitative means that psychologists use in research are often based on arbitrary metrics that aren't calibrated against real-world, overt phenomena. Sometimes we have to make some assumptions in our quantitative work, and pair it up with anecdotes, qualitative data, and experience. What I can tell you as a practitioner and researcher is that these methods are better than not trying at all and have lead to some very important insights into human behaviour and consciousness. Is it messy? Sure. My colleagues and I have a mantra to "lean into the discomfort of the work".

What I was actually referring to though was neuro-imaging data that suggests PHYSICAL changes to the human brain following attention/awareness interventions. Greater gyrification and thickening of white matter in implicated brain regions, less activity in the default mode network (daydreaming / lack of present moment awareness) of the brain and in the amygdala (fear and emotion processing), and greater neural activation in attention related brain regions. I thought that "hard" science might be a better sell to the posters who believe psychology is mumbo-jumbo.
Great input and thanks for sharing. Hope to see you more around these parts.
Why has psychology been overlooked Quote
10-21-2014 , 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jukofyork
If you took a modern PC back to the Victorian age: does a person learning that "pulling this bit out, makes it stop working!!!" or "putting a light bulb across this bit makes it light up!!!" really mean anything in terms understanding the workings of the PC?

Not to say Psychology is totally useless, but I think future generations will look back on it as modern Chemists look back at Alchemy.

Juk
the same applies to economics and probably with worse societal implications imo.
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