Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > General Gambling > Psychology

Notices

Psychology Discussions of psychology as applied to poker and other gambling games.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-29-2012, 05:44 AM   #1
stranger
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4
Why a bluff brings tilt more than a value bet?

Hi everyone,
my question is why people especially at low stakes prefers to be value betted than bluffed ?
For example a calling station can tilt if you make them fold A high on a 10 BB pot but no if they call 100BB 3 barrel with bottom pair and you have a set...even regs flat 3 bets too much expecially oop hating being outplayed or pushed around? Why?
kyo88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 09:24 AM   #2
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
A_C_Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,104
Re: Why a bluff brings tilt more than a value bet?

This is pretty obvious, folding is a passive action. It is like surrendering or saying "I give up." It makes them feel and look like a little bitch. This is bad since one might be perceived as not being tough. If they are not perceived as tough, but weak, then women will be turned off by them. If women are turned off they will have no chance to pass on their DNA and perpetuate their genetic code throughout the ages. It is therefore an evolutionary imperative to have a bias towards calling.
A_C_Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 09:09 PM   #3
grinder
 
MatteoBounce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 636
Re: Why a bluff brings tilt more than a value bet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_C_Slater View Post
This is pretty obvious, folding is a passive action. It is like surrendering or saying "I give up." It makes them feel and look like a little bitch. This is bad since one might be perceived as not being tough. If they are not perceived as tough, but weak, then women will be turned off by them. If women are turned off they will have no chance to pass on their DNA and perpetuate their genetic code throughout the ages. It is therefore an evolutionary imperative to have a bias towards calling.
lol

that's pretty good
MatteoBounce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 04:12 PM   #4
centurion
 
TripleRangeMerge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Yes.
Posts: 132
Re: Why a bluff brings tilt more than a value bet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_C_Slater View Post
This is pretty obvious, folding is a passive action. It is like surrendering or saying "I give up." It makes them feel and look like a little bitch. This is bad since one might be perceived as not being tough. If they are not perceived as tough, but weak, then women will be turned off by them. If women are turned off they will have no chance to pass on their DNA and perpetuate their genetic code throughout the ages. It is therefore an evolutionary imperative to have a bias towards calling.
Surely women people poker and are pissed when they get bluffed aswell, by your logic they must all be lesbians.....
TripleRangeMerge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2012, 01:08 AM   #5
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
A_C_Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,104
Re: Why a bluff brings tilt more than a value bet?

Women are still competing for the attention of the Men so the logic is consistent, just less direct. Men desire Women, but Women desire the desire of Men.
A_C_Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 11:38 AM   #6
adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,172
Re: Why a bluff brings tilt more than a value bet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyo88 View Post
Hi everyone,
my question is why people especially at low stakes prefers to be value betted than bluffed ?
For example a calling station can tilt if you make them fold A high on a 10 BB pot but no if they call 100BB 3 barrel with bottom pair and you have a set...even regs flat 3 bets too much expecially oop hating being outplayed or pushed around? Why?
People play games because they like to win. When someone calls a bet they are hoping to win, but when it turns out they were behind they realize they never had a chance to win. But when they fold a hand that would have won, they have been deprived of something that should have been theirs. They blame themselves for folding, and they blame the villain for stealing something from them.
VBAces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 11:58 AM   #7
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,359
Re: Why a bluff brings tilt more than a value bet?

I think it's easier to view making a bad call as being unlucky ("we both had top pair, which is a good hand, but that other guy just happened to have a better kicker... Man, I run so bad"), while making a bad fold somehow seems like more of a mistake on our part ("I had the best hand, but I folded")

Also, we usually don't know we've been bluffed unless the villain chooses to show it, and IME they're often likely to do it in spots where we're likely to be tilted. For example, I tanked for a super long time on the river in a pot a few weeks ago. I had ace high on a board where a flush draw had missed and some straight draws had missed, but villain could also have some sets, two pair and weak pair hands in his range. I eventually folded and villain showed the nut low flush draw. If I hadn't shown that I was struggling with my river decision, I don't think he ever would have shown the bluff...
Bigoldnit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 07:12 PM   #8
centurion
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 132
Re: Why a bluff brings tilt more than a value bet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_C_Slater View Post
This is pretty obvious, folding is a passive action. It is like surrendering or saying "I give up." It makes them feel and look like a little bitch. This is bad since one might be perceived as not being tough. If they are not perceived as tough, but weak, then women will be turned off by them. If women are turned off they will have no chance to pass on their DNA and perpetuate their genetic code throughout the ages. It is therefore an evolutionary imperative to have a bias towards calling.
I disagree with this. I believe, based on recollections of personal experiences, that I tilt just as badly, if not worse, on bad calls as I do on bad folds. I also believe, based on multiple recollections of personal experience, that making folds does not make me feel like a little bitch, unless those folds were outrageously horrible, which is very rare. I also contend that being percieve as not tough is not always a bad thing. I don't think I expect you to change your opinions based on my post, but I believe that I do not have a good reason to adopt your viewpoint unless you can demonstrate that you are correct.

OP: In my personal experience, I think some people will tilt more from bluffs, others from calling value bets. There might be a larger number of people who tilt from being bluffed though.
cheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 03:55 AM   #9
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 399
Re: Why a bluff brings tilt more than a value bet?

Also if you catch a bluff you are the boss at the table and the Bluffer looks stupid
Maniac81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 09:34 AM   #10
grinder
 
B Champman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: the Town of Canada
Posts: 519
Re: Why a bluff brings tilt more than a value bet?

major problem at uNL is the fact that most players take it too personally. They hate being bluffed as they don't want to feel like they arent good enough at poker and that they may be stuck where they are at uNL.

they also think that they should always fight back vs a steal, especially vs a player that has done it to them before, and have taken it personally, this leads to a lot of lost profit vs players they should just avoid, and is a huge leak in uNL players.

its also the reason why most players will stay at a table and try to fight the other thinking players to prove they are good enough to eventually make money/move up, when they should really be leaving a bad seat and going to a fishier table and only attacking the marks.

tldr

your question is part of a bigger picture, which is that you should not be fighting regs who think strategically to make profit, but having it handed to you by the fish who make a ton of mistakes. Most uNL players don't follow this as their ego gets in the way of their bottom line, which should be to make a profit
B Champman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 10:48 AM   #11
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 238
Re: Why a bluff brings tilt more than a value bet?

AC Slater : I enjoyed your thinking and even if that's a bit lolwtf, I'm pretty sure it can be applied to some players.
VBAces : Clearly the explanation I would have given. It's worth to think that you were meant to win the pot if you had the balls to call. It means also that you got outplayed by someone, it's tough to not feeling resentment against this guy for being better than you.
B Champman : I will remember this one : it's your ego which is talking to you because you feel weaker than the other man and don't want that.

So if I sum-up :

You want to be the best at the table because you've got some ego coming from the human being evolution (lol).
You were meant to win this pot but the guy played better than you because he attacked a weak spot.
So you feel like he took something from you that you ought to win and you feel inferior to this man = tilt.

Solution : Play without ego, play the whole situation, don't put feelings into the situation. See the player as a computer, a machine you are playing with, not against.
nyaf is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive