I'm a bit unsure of this atm, organising thoughts as I write, nit picking is desired!

I've been reading into how the sub-conscience works, and looking into a wee bit in how experts in the field operates, and it makes me think that my approach to poker has been wrong all this time.

I'm wee bit of a perfectionist, I like to control my reality, and distrust hunches, since I don't understand the premises used to generate whatever I've concluded. I always tend to analysis systems to generate a general game-plan to follow. How this translates to poker is for whatever reason I stumble across a idea that, typically through using mathematically deducted premises, I've deduced that a play is quite profitable. This might be 3betting/cbetting small, donking light, overbetting, playing hyper aggressive with nut flush draws +. I than mash this play, without really factoring much other information, as that is outside of my reality. As I'm progressively getting better at poker I factor in new information(this grouping of stats suggests he won't do x here/he made y play, suggesting he has z mentality and is incapable of doing w)

I basically constantly consciously process information, without really observing what is happening, in other words not really using my subs-conscience processing power to it's full capacity. I find that if I play 4 tables I get bored and don't pay much attention, I just wait for a situation to pop-up where I deem it +EV to engage and I follow some algorithm that I've developed. I think the very best players wouldn't do this. I think they'd more observe what is happening, develop a feel for the dynamics at play and respond appropriately. Sure they'd figure out some math as many situations in poker is counter-intuitive, but they wouldn't rely on it. They wouldn't develop strategies, rather guide lines. They'd also follow their intuition. They wouldn't make a play because they consciously think it's -EV, they'd go through with it. Two things will occur; they're correct and profit, or wrong and allow their subs-conscience to gradually learn from the mistake.

Knowing when to 4bet-light has been a tricky and costly situation for me. I have the tendency to think people are 3betting me a lot more than they actually are, and have gotten myself into bit of trouble thinking so. Because of this, I've basically been never really 4betting light. However, today I was playing a few tables and somebody 3bet me; I was just staring at the screen in response, I'd usually snap fold but something was just up, I had a feeling that he was FOS. My sub-conscience gave my conscience mind a brief look at a number of premises, I was only faintly aware of them but, as attention was at this feeling mostly. I checked over his stats, and reasoned this guy is not the sort that would ever 3bet light, and folded. He showed his hand afterwards(we where chatting a bit) and had indeed bluffed.

Of course I just happened to be right, but nonetheless I just had such a strong feeling, and I think I really should went through with it. I think I need to do this with every hand I play; less conscience processing, less next hand mentality, less tables and more observation, more plays based on feeling. I'll perhaps try to take a conscience breath every hand, perhaps practice mindfulness to some extent but instead of focusing on all types of sensory input to distract my conscientiousness I'll focus on some poker thing. I'll probably try to somehow self-monitor myself as well, it'll probably be easier if I'm playing more intuitively, and consciously ask myself questions like, "How am I feeling atm? Am I tilting? Reckless? "

Thoughts?

I would say that you are on the right track. While I think that having a mathematics foundation is very important to the game, I will take an intuition player over a mathematical player any day of the week.

The problem with a mathematical approach to the game is that it works well in a vacuum, but things are changing constantly from hand to hand. The reason is that there are so many variables that affect every single hand played that mathematics can't account for, or if they can, will take unreasonably long to calculate. Your brain is a very powerful tool. Your sub-concious is great at sorting variables, memory recall, and body language. It is so good in fact that you might not even be able to reason out loud what it is you are seeing and feeling. Sometimes, because you can't explain the sub-concious subtleties, your concious brain tries to compensate for that lack of reason by providing a different line of rationale, whether right or wrong.

It sounds like your on the right track. Btw, I don't want you to confuse me saying that playing on feel is the same as that guy who says he can "feel" the flush coming and that's why he called in a bad spot.

Play live poker more too. Intuition is considerably more important live vs online.

i was thinking about this too, cause i took a decision at my work and i didn't think much about it, but i think its the right desicion, i just got a feeling

so i was thinking that maybe the best desicions are the ones that come first and u don't think too much, cause you take it with the sub-conscience

well, i'm not a psychologist but maybe u can train ur sub-conscience

a poker player could use math to train it or experience

Your subconscious is always watching and aware, it picks up far more information than you are consciously able to process and this is why gut instinct is so frequently more accurate than the seemingly more rational analytical approach.

i only play live.

utilizing the subconscious is crucial i think. Almost every time i make a great play or call or whatever, it happens almost automatically. its like i just do it before i even realize whats going on. Whenever i get strong feelings theyre almost always right, but a lot of times i think it over too much and confuse myself or talk myself into making a bad move because "theres no way he could be running this line with XX" even though it turns out the hunch was correct although when i analyzed it it didnt make much sense.

just take a while and maybe drop down stakes or something but focus on going with your intuition for a few sessions and see what happens.

Elliot is spot on here. The subconscious mind never rests. It is always working, processing our thoughts and turning them into our desired results.

I would love to here some more of your thoughts on the subconscious mind and poker Elliot. \

The hypnosis mp3 is still helping my game! Thanks!

Hi,

Thanks glad to hear the Mp3's helping your game!

I've started a mindset blog for poker if anyones interested, started off predominantly regarding hypnosis and poker but over time I'll be covering different topics.

http://www.poker-hypnosis.co.uk/mind-set-blog/

I've recently read "The art of learning" by Josh Waitzkin and I can't recommend it enough in regards to optimum mindset. I think that will be the theme of my next post.

Cheers

Elliot

There's certainly something to say for information that you've learned so well you don't have to think about it. For example: you "feel" like someone is lying. Your feeling is the sum of scattered pieces of information that you picked up on from the persons speech/mannerisms as much as it is something that doesn't seem right about their story.
As far as what you're describing in terms of spots, it's worth focusing on trying to find a deeper understanding in your play (+1 for this being especially true live.) It's easy to cost and know that something is +EV without thinking through your alternatives. I make this mistake all the time and it leaves money on the table. Staying deeply focused is tough, work on it and it will train your sub/un-conscious.
-IJ

So I had been playing for like 8 hours live 1/2. I was up a little maybe +300.
Someone had just won a pot with 92 from the straddle and next hand I got 92.

effective stacks 200$

UTG opened for 5.
3callers in front of me.
Hero Hijack-I decide to call just because I thought it would be funny to win a hand with 92s.
Sb calls
BB calls

Pot 35
Flop K102 rainbow.

Old grumpy SB leads out for 10$
Everyone folds to me.
I call with plans on betting the turn on any a,9,2.

History. I saw him stack off with AK vs QJ vs KKK on a k107 2 hearts board.

pot 55
Turn 2
K1022 still rainbow.

V leads out 20$

I am holding a bunch of chips. I throw them in. Turns out to be 42$

V pretty quickly throws in 3 green chips. so like 43 raise to me. 85 total.
He had like 110 behind.

Now a check raise from old guy is strong of course.
But I can't really see him having KK(K) here with no raise pre.
same with 10 10(10)...super hard to see him flat, and lead out 10$
Plus does he really want to scare me away with a check-raise with the nuts?

Any had with a 2 seems pretty unlikely. He doesn't play q2.
K2 maybe, but again does he want to scare me away with a check raise?
A2...would old grumpy v lead out 10$ on flop with bottom pair...I doubt it.

I decided AK, k10 are the most likely though I would think he bet more on the flop.

KQ,KJ...also makes sense.
A10 maybe he is bluffing.

Villain actually called time on me rather quickly. So quickly I almost said to the dealer that seems a little quick.
If I decide if he was super strong he wouldn't be in such a rush.

I decide to ship for 150$ (400$ pot)
To be honest though the whole time I felt like I was beat.

so Logic vs Intuition.
any guesses about V had?

you played that hand so bad, you're probably a losing player.

fold preflop, seriously what good can come from this? you obviously suck at poker so all you're doing here is giving your self reversed implied odds.

fold the flop; a grumpy old guy donked into 4 people and have you 5 outs that if you hit still gives you a weak hand that won't be good often if you get the money in with

why are you bluffing with yo0ur 92 on the turn with your shove anyway? idk maybe the terribad live player will stack of with TP


the quick calling time doesn't mean a whole lot; he could be doing because he's trying to piss you off to call, or because he doesn't want you to think through your bluff. he he sounded noticably more grumpy when he called it, it makes it more likely it's the former.

He has a range here of TT/22/KT+; at times he also has 2x and KK; this is rarely a pure bluff.


your bad feelings doesn't mean much about villain's range here in this spot; it's likely they came because deep down you felt like a sucker for playing this hand for fun to than stack off with it against a old guy.