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Too creative for poker? (LONG) Too creative for poker? (LONG)

12-30-2013 , 01:56 AM
Sometimes, and probablly most of the time, I play good solid poker. I only know this based on recording results over many years. Off and on, I have been able to pay bills through poker if needed but never for extended periods. For the past 6 months or so most of my income has come from live poker. I don't think you can attribute this to just luck or running good, although those may be small factors.

Then other times, for no real reason, I play just horrible. Maybe I'm tired, impatient, bored, or on some form of tilt. Playing for hours day after day can be a real grind mentally. Sometimes I feel like all I do is play poker. Finding balance is hard at times, because if I don't play I don't get paid. Anyway, I will make decisions at the poker table that just dont make sense. Today I called a 5 bet shove with J10 off (and won vs. AA obv). I convinced myself the guy had Ak and I had live cards, lol. Maybe I've been watching too much HSP and Tom Dwan. This is 1/2 and 2/5 we are talking about here with basic thinking players - I know this. I can't explain it. Yesterday I 3 bet on the button with J8 off after an EP raise and two callers. A somewhat tight player shoves for like 80 more and I call (and lose as I should to KK). My only explanation for this is just plain stubborness. I cannot get myself to ever fold once I 3 or 4 bet regardless of my cards. But of course I shouldnt be making these moves in the first place. Strategy aside, this is an emotional problem that creaps up from time to time. I wish it never did it. I wish I was a boring, ABC TAG player. If there was a pill to make me one I would take it. Sometimes I envy the older players who seem to have endless patience and zero tilt.

I briefly had a mental coach who told me that right brained people are prone to more creative plays at the poker table. I suppose this has its merits in that we are a bit more unpredictable. Obviously some of my plays makes me harder to read as my range appears to be wider and I might get paid off more than the super taggy player. But maybe not because I play with such a variety of players that remember such a small sample size of hands. A lot players who never see these moves think I am tight. A select few think I am crazy.

I would much rather be more left brained in poker. Tests that I took online confirm I am about 70% right brained. I can be a lot more logical about a poker hand when away from the table. But something inside me just goes away from everything sensible as times. Its like Dr. Jekkly and Mr. Hyde. Its like I am bi polar. It has been this way my whole life. I can only be patient and grind for so long before I just spazz out.

I'm not sure what kind of response or advice I am seeking here, but I am epecially wondering how many other creative types play poker and if they struggle with anything similar and how they cope with it.

I have learned that caffiene, sugar, and heavy meals don't help. Taking breaks and walking around helps. Getting enough sleep and exercise helps. Yoga and meditation helps. But it helps- it doesnt solve it. Ultimately, God made me a certain way and it won't change.

Please don't make stupid comments like I should just quit poker. I am plenty smart for this game. Ive been winning at poker since day one for the last 10 years. I am looking for constructive, enlightening comments. Thanks!
Too creative for poker? (LONG) Quote
12-30-2013 , 03:47 AM
I like having the illusion of being really aggressive, but without actually being so. For example, if you have (as you should) a 3bet folding range, people at the table will still assume you have a wide range, even though you're folding a lot. Even in heads up if you 3 bet fold a guy 10 straight hands, and only 3bet call or 3bet jam once, you'll still be getting called really light by a lot of guys. This is because most people will focus on what you did (3 bet 10 straight hands) but not what you did after (folded all but your strongest holdings).

After jamming the 5bet with JT, you just need to make sure your next jam is absolutely for value only. Yes the JT was a mistake, but you can use that mistake to make money later in the game. It may seem obvious to you, but some people at the table will assume you love action, and will snap off a much wider range than they normally would.

I am left-handed and very right brained as well. I think it helps to take things a tiny bit slower (10-15 seconds even) and go over in your mind why you are making a particular play. We all have an ego, and the plays where we are being hasty can unfortunately give our egos a chance to "play" in the game too.

Re: the God comment. I am agnostic personally, but regardless of your beliefs, don't use something as an excuse to play poorly. If a man beats his wife, God didn't make him do it. He wouldn't beat his wife in front of a bigger man that could whip his butt. He has self control.

You seem smart, and therefore you've got the ability to figure out what makes you tick, and come up with a solid, permanent solution to the issue.
Too creative for poker? (LONG) Quote
12-30-2013 , 07:25 PM
I have the visualization of you playing for a session with some people making these plays, which dwan can make because he has a reputation to the players at the table that is more solid and he has played a lot with them.

You're probably being too short minded in how people think of you or how people are playing at the table.

I could list other common reasons but I think that could be the main one.
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12-31-2013 , 07:37 AM
They don't call it a "grind" for nothing

Good luck...
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12-31-2013 , 04:42 PM
gj, mentally remind yourself before every session, and during the session before hands if you have to of your leak. Given you know you have a big leak in calling all ins feeling pot committed with weak hands, hammer it into your brain that you're going to fold no matter what in those spots in the future. And when it comes time to fold, think about it again, and do it. Also you want to address the reason why you're doing it. Like you said being attached to getting it in. For whatever reason, maybe it's that you feel like people are bluffing more than they are, or you fear people trying to outplay you etc.
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01-06-2014 , 01:59 AM
I don't really buy the left-right brained thing in this context. It probably has an effect, but I think it more sounds like you just have control issues, as well as confidence in a general strategy.

You don't make a 3bet with J8 because you're "creative" - you do it because you have a less ingrained notion that 3-betting there is incorrect. Don't let some test that says you're right brained be the excuse for not exercising control and playing well.
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01-09-2014 , 03:00 AM
the lag cases are such. there are weaker and better lags. its much about technique and experience. the creative aspect can make one stronger, the irrational aspect harder to read. weaknesses will somewhat remain. its a sort of style one has.

if one is creative in an another way, one would find poker being too boring compared to doing science or other. but here the creative aspect is not such but a part of gaming, like in any other game.

i know a lag who started as a big long run loser, but he improved in every way and has been winning ever since, though he became rather tight in this case, dropping of his lag style, and learned to stay controlled.
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01-09-2014 , 12:09 PM
Need more greed.
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01-09-2014 , 01:45 PM
U be alright. You're a solid player.
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01-09-2014 , 02:31 PM
Play less hours. I think you get bored.

I know you say you need to pay the bills, but as the quality of your play goes way up, so will your win rate.

When you do play, periodically evaluate your play. take a walk once an hour if you need to. not just to the bathroom, walk kinda far and fast, sounds silly, but getting the blood pumping has always worked for me.

you know already not to eat heavy, make sure you stick to this because this one has been very important for me. eat light before you play like a salad and bring healthy snacks like bananas, crackers, dried fruit, nuts, trail mix etc... take a break and snack.

Keep a poker journal. Try to recognize the way you are feeling or what triggers you to get overly creative (tilt).

Good luck
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01-23-2014 , 08:39 AM
Guy, at the end of the day in low stakes poker, the math is less important then the mental aspect of the game. In low stakes, the only math you should be concerned with(most of the time) is math pertaining to bankroll management.

If losing $200 is a huge blow to your networth, the you aren't properly rolled.

I think the beauty of playing low stakes is the flexibility that you are afforded to be creative. There is a difference, however, of being creative and being on tilt.

Finding a healthy balance between fundamental card playing, and creative card playing just takes time. Record your play/results, practice good bankroll management, and don't play when you don't want to.
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01-23-2014 , 08:40 AM
if you don't enjoy playing, take a break and do something else. The game will wait for you.
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02-05-2014 , 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjpure
Ultimately, God made me a certain way and it won't change.
This is a very interesting statement. How true is that? And when 'it' won't change, is there anything else about that 'it'?

"Whatever has the nature to arise, has the nature to cease.
Whatever is of the nature to arise, which is everything we experience, is also of the nature to cease."
- Buddha
Too creative for poker? (LONG) Quote
02-05-2014 , 08:55 PM
You are assuming that you are right brained and creative but actually you are just playing bad.

Use the effort to make creative plays like putting people in tough spots in multi way pots. Our move up in stakes so you will be forced to play your a game. It sounds like your getting bored and titling. There is a difference between 3 being light and isoing fish and calling all ins with j8 sooted. Lag it up and you might see your hourly skyrocket as long as you are playing ta profitable lag style.
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02-07-2014 , 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RenegadePeddler
if you don't enjoy playing, take a break and do something else. The game will wait for you.
THE GAME WAITS FOR NO ONE!


...but ya the game will still be here when you return hahaha
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