This is gonna be a long post and I'm not even sure if this is the right forum, but it seems the most appropriate forum for a serious response, so forgive me if it's in the wrong place. I'm a long time lurker here but I just need to get some things off my chest, hopefully get some advice, and maybe help some other people out.

My Story

After graduating college, I got a pretty nice job as a systems analyst at a very large computer company. I was just another cog in the machine, but the pay was good and I liked my job. Fast forward to 2004 and the poker boom, I make my first real cash deposit after playing for play chips for many years. I do very well. The stories are true, people really were just burning money at that time. So I have a decent job, making decent income on the side playing poker (mostly NL50 and NL100). Life is good.

2006 rolls around and my company is downsizing. I decide to quit my job (getting a nice severance package in the deal) and take a shot at playing poker professionally. Like every other dreamer I think I have what it takes to be the next Ivey. I grind grind grind. I start at NL100. It doesn't take long to get to NL200. I'm moving up at a decent rate and think it won't be long before I'm at the nosebleeds.

Then I hit a wall at around 5/10. I can't beat anything higher at a reasonable rate. I just can't pull the trigger at these stakes the way I could at NL400 or NL600. I care about the money too much. I think it'll pass, eventually I'll get over my mental block and be able to move up. It never happens. It's ok though, even grinding NL400-NL600 with some NL1000 mixed in I'm making a decent enough living. I never really crush the games but I never experience a really bad run either.

2010. The run bad starts. The games get tougher, as they have been year after year, and I can't get anything going. I turn 30 in July. Looking at the books I realize I've earned all of $473 this year, and thats including rakeback, bonuses, etc. I take a deep look at my poker career and realize this is as good as it's gonna get. I'm not good enough/don't have the mental fortitude to get past mid stakes poker. I could continue to grind, but for how long? Do I want to be 40 and still be grinding NL600? It's time to move on with my life.

I tried to live the dream and it didn't work out. But I have ZERO regrets. You only live once and it sucks to wonder "What if". I'm never gonna quit poker 100% but I'm over playing it as my primary source of income.

Anyways I just needed to get that out of my system. If anyone has a similar story I'd love to hear it. Now my question for people who have been in my situation.

1. What's the best way to spin playing poker so it is more than degen gambling to people who don't know anything about poker? I've gone to a few employment agencies and they've questioned me about the 4 year gap in employment on my resume. When I tell them I played poker, the recruiters seem to genuinely be interested in hearing about playing poker for a living. This hasn't translated into job offers though (granted it's only been a few weeks).

2. How long did it take you to adjust from the poker grind to a regular job? I think this is going to be hard for me. The best thing about playing poker for a living is making your own schedule and I don't know how I'll handle a 9-5er again.

If anyone actually got to this point in my post, thanks for reading my crap and any advice/words of encouragement is appreciated.

The best way to explain the resume gap is "investor" and leave it at that imo. If they press you for details, you can get fancy and confuse them with investor lingo so they drop it. Poker is embedded in the public's image as part of casino gambling, so it's best to save your energy and portray poker as something else.

Greeat post Dave, sounds like you know what your doing. Glad you'll never be asking "what if". Best of luck w/ everything!

This might sound like a dumb suggestion but have you ever tried playing live? The players are much worse at equivalent stakes.
Either way good luck with getting a real job, I'm sure it won't be too hard to transition because you will probably enjoy the social aspects.
I also would spin it into some "private investments" gig, you would get respect for that.

Here where I live (Bay Area, California) the biggest game spread is 10/20 NL and it's run very sporadically, maybe twice a week if that. And it's basically all regs. Theres also a 5/10 that runs more frequently thats pretty soft at times, but again theres a lot of nitty regs in that game. I doubt I could crush these games enough at 25-30 hands/hour to make me reconsider. So to play live would mean me moving probably either to Vegas or southern California. Not something I'm really too excited to do. I like my life here.

But more than that, I really am over having poker as a career. "Grinding" is the perfect word to describe poker. After 4 years toiling at mid stakes, poker has ground me down mentally. I no longer have the passion to grind poker that I once did. Maybe that has something to do with running bad lately. Maybe thats WHY I'm running bad. Classic chicken/egg dilemma. Either way I'm ready to move on.

It's weird, 4 years ago I was so excited to leave the 9-5 world behind and now I'm equally excited to get back into it.

Wish me luck everyone!

Dave--

I played for a short while professionally, didn't like it at all, went back to a real 9-5 job, didn't like that either, although it took me several years to figure it out. I finally took stock in what my talents are and thought of a plan where I could use my talents and the activities that I enjoyed to make a living.

Now I am self-employed and work from home, which is perfect since I have two kiddos to take care of. I know that this is not realistic for everyone. It is just something to consider.

I wish you the best of luck in your career search!

Op, good luck and I'm sure you'll be just fine.

DonkeyDave, guess what? I'm like your East coast counterpart but my situation is much more fickle. Hear my story, please.

I began poker in 2001-2002 when I was working at a software company. By 2003 I was ready to take the leap so I quit my job. My income basically doubled every year through 2006 which is when I peaked. I was KILLING online (thanks PartyPoker) *and* also won a nice live tournament too. At one point I was even 4-tabling 25/50nl and 8-tabling 10/20nl... and doing pretty well in Bellagio nosebleeds too. I was invincible.

2007 came in like a lion and my overconfidence and too much playing around with other poker variants, Omaha and the like, contributed my downfall.... and not to mention risking too much live. Luckily, I finished down just a tad that year. It took me all of 2007 and some of 2008, with various hot and cold streaks etc. to realize how the online landscape had changed and that the field was filling up with guys like me.

In mid-2008 I couldn't stomach nearly a year and a half of getting nowhere, and thankfully I still had assets from my prior dominance, so I did what many would be envious of and took 3-4 months off. Literally did nothing but World of Warcraft, some travelling, movies, etc. It refreshed my mind but unfortunately it would prove too late. When I got back to the game at the end of '08 I thought I would have some motivation, since I had just become a father and my mind was clear. The new breed was just too competitive. My edge was gone... I ended up bouncing between 2-4 and 5-10 nl games on various sites, and bubbling many tournaments (or finishing in 11-20th if I cashed) and by the next year I made a slow decline into 1/2 and 2/4.

Now in 2010 my roll is nearly gone and mass-tabling 1/2 for rakeback and bonuses but it just isn't cutting it. I cash out some, but then buy in more. I know that the cycle of constant disappointment is disrupting my psyche and preventing a successful comeback. I'm being squeezed out of the profession and its the worst situation possible. Continue, and its only a matter of time before busto. But I foolishly keep trying to rebuild although I know I'm just steadily going through the motions while I'm spending a lot of time at home with my kid. However, crunch time is looming.

As far as the real world is concerned, I'd be ecstatic to even obtain a decent paying 9-5 job with benefits. The prospect of a schedule doesn't bother me at all. The big problem is that after 7 years of being out of tech, I have no skills. My prior skills were a little rusty as it is (since I had switched from another major into computers), but now I might as well just be entry-level or worse. I feel I'm out of options, almost no one in the industry would hire a 7-year poker player (which is OK I guess since I'm sick of sitting in front of a computer) so I'll have to make some kind of leap into a completely random profession or business venture or go back to school/training. But no idea what for!

So thats it. I'm completely lost... this all proves there are guys out there like you but in much more trouble

Good luck to you, though.

Don't mention it Dave, too much has been put out there that ties poker in a negative connotation. Just state your tried your hand in investing, and it didn't pan out etc.

Doesn't hurt to withhold the truth now and then. If your wife/partner asked if you were checking someone else out, no one ever says "Oh yea just imaging her naked." No reason for a future employer to know all the details as well.

Best of luck.

Don't take it personally... but pics or GTFO.

or maybe what I'm saying is define "pretty well"

This would be the best economy to blame it on "bad luck."

Thanks for all the kind words guys. I don't think I'm gonna be mentioning poker any more when it comes to potential employers. It's too bad, I really do think poker has helped me think more logically, analyze situations, interpret actions better, etc. I'll just have to figure out how to put that in a context that doesn't involve poker.

HRBLUFNSTUF

Thanks for posting your story. I know exactly how you feel about tech jobs. It's been ages since I've coded anything and I don't think I can go back to that. One of my biggest mistakes in hindsight was not keeping in touch with a lot of my co-workers after I quit my last regular job. Now my job network is real shoddy.

Do you have any income besides poker? If not I think you should find some cash flow outside of poker before trying again. Looking back at my HH I can tell my play has been slowly deteriorating. It's true that I have been running under EV almost this entire year, but on top of that my run bad has made me a worse player. I'm calling down lighter and getting value owned in spots that I should know better. That pressure to make some income, any income, has definitely led to me making worse decisions at the table.

Run bad -> Play bad -> running worse -> playing worse

It's a gross cycle. You might be going through the same. I hope once I get some income coming in outside of poker my head will be clearer and I can make more +EV plays like I used to. This semi-tilt is worse than super monkey tilt. I can at least spot myself about to go on crazy tilt and quit, this slow bleed I'm experiencing is harder to get away from.

GL with whatever you do and please post any updates. I could always use some inspiration.

Yep me too, I have only one contact in my tech job history.

Other income? None whatsoever since 2003 (cept bank interest). "cash flow" sounds nice in theory but I'm not a business-oriented person and have no other prospects so kinda clueless there. Its not like I'm going to become a landlord or start a successful website.

What you say about your play deteriorating - I think that also happened to me on a smaller scale. I used to respect bets more often but then I got tired of laying down the winner. Since then I'm much more of a calling station. One thing that prob sets me back most is that I'm out of the loop now in poker. I don't discuss plays/hands with people anymore or watch better players playing or even poker videos for that matter.

The worst part about being a burnout is that after being victorious at high stakes, living the "life" and coming back down, nearly nothing is exciting anymore. There's just this background mundane type of atmosphere when I do things that used to be exciting... it kills the soul I guess. Feel hopeless and worthless....... like a junk car out of gas on the side of the road, watching all the other cars zoom by on the road of life. Its probably been discussed here before but there have been studies that the loss of money is very closely linked to physical pain and I definitely sense this. Losing days feel awful and winning days feel like how I should normally feel daily. This can't be healthy.

I can't wait to get where you are right now Dave and yes also keep me posted whats happening with you and I'll keep you updated too. Right now I'm still grinding with rakeback, and running some tournaments hoping for a miracle to happen.

I don't think anyone was taking pics of me My stays in Vegas were pretty under the radar. I didn't annihilate the games but I remained competitive and a winner in high stakes. Was winning mostly during series times anyway so I guess it doesn't count as much. My goal was not to brag about my exploits but just to relay my state of mind during my more successful times.

It does count for what you were saying about your state of mind. I thought you were implying you were a nosebleed reg at the Bellagio, I thought I would have heard of you.