I have a couple weird questions that i cant really figure out. I have played poker for many years now and I have failed hard overall. I have some big scores including a 70 and 20k bink in MTTs early in my career. Since then i have lost all that and more. I have about 2 million hands over the last 2 years after these two scores that really started my poker "adventure". All MTTs and spins.

It has been a ton of downs and some ups but during the last 2 years i have lost 140k playing online. I have been given the chance to play poker for a living over and over again during this time. I have tried to reset so many times, study a lot, etc.
There is a very strong psychological block that makes me play bad on purpose and I think I am addicted to failure and subconsciously make decisions when i play that lead me to go busto every single time. It is self sabotage to the extreme because it has put me in horrible situations so many times in life now. It`s like i know what to do, how to do it and everything to have a very happy life but i always choose the lazy, painful and terrible route that i know 100% sure will lead to misery. Not only talking about poker but so many other things in life i do this high level of self sabotage. Is it common to self sabotage "on purpose" cause deep down you are addicted to pain and misery in some strange way? It is so ****ed up because i can feel it as it is happening and i still do it. Hope someone can understand what i mean and maybe refer to some articles or something on this topic.

Google Masochism I guess.

Lmao Yeah it is definitely not that. It is not physical either. Probably similar only it is physiological and not something i go out of my way to seek out. Maybe it is something from childhood that i cant remember and now i am just addicted to being sad and feeling sorry for myself or some **** and that is why i tend to end up on that route and **** up for myself all the time. I hate being miserable though but maybe i am just addicted to that feeling somehow and my ego just seeks it out and subconsciously i am bound to gravitate towards getting to that bad state of mind.

Is it possible that perhaps you could be ignoring another issue that is causing you to lose? I.e poor BRM, playing at stakes too high for your skill level or something else?

IDK how common it is but OP has a serious, recognized problem. A simple search brings up this:

https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

OP: Get professional treatment. After reading that you've lost 140K online I'm hoping that you can afford it. And, unless you MUST have your own computer for work, I'd get rid of it and just use a smart phone for the internet. You absolutely must stay away from poker until you've resolved this issue. GL to you.

That was the case for a while BUT after a while i got a great coach with a very good rep and studied a lot, did BRM etc. So for a year i knew what to do and still somehow made bad choices etc. Not only that but the punishment for me doing bad at poker would have massive consequences and make life really unbearable. If i just did ok and played well and did my best my life would have been extremely good. I knew this and i still ****ed up.
I do think it got amplified when i got depression though. Depressed people do this a lot don`t they? Self sabotage and go down the rabbit hole of feeling bad and feeling sorry for yourself and identify with being a "loser". So you will automatically make decisions that puts you in a bad spot....? Just ranting off here and thinking out loud lol.

I could not afford to lose it. I do not play anymore as you said i need to fix this problem first. I can do a session every now and then without a problem but need to take many day breaks in between. Also I am seeing a therapist but not much to find there. I will try to read more online about it but most cases seem more extreme than mine. Maybe i am a milder version of some of the mental disorders. So many variables and circumstances that has lead me to this point and i would have to write many pages to really explain what is going on in my mind lol. Thanks for your tip, appreciate it a lot

I'm happy to read that you're seeing a therapist but you don't mention if that person can prescribe medication which you might need. Other than trying to help you stay committed to resolving your problem that's the best I can do. Staying away from poker only solves part of your money problem. You need to solve your life problem also. GL to you.

Is that not the root of your problems? Like someone said earlier, BRM.

OP is talking about a lot more than playing over his head.

The subconscious will out. Google "self-concept is destiny" and maybe it will take you to psychology writer Nathaniel Branden. Your deepest vision of yourself is what ultimately will manifest, and that's not the magical manifest of some fanciful notions of spirituality, but the mind-as-motor-of-behavior-and-outcomes model of human life. At the extreme take Stu Ungar who was hell-bent to self-destruct no matter how much he won.

What is in the shadow and the disowned self, according to the level of its toxicity, WILL take the driver's seat in your life ... and there is your conscious, rational self saying, "WTF is happening?" A horse does not disown elements of its experience, psychology, and self-concept and then harbor them unbeknownst to it in the subconscious. But every person does. This is why human beings (often) need psychology coaches and horses and computers don't.

Get "The Disowned Self." When you are familiar with what the disowned self and shadow are, along with what can be lurking there, it will no longer be an utter mystery when it expresses itself, but your most salient truth come calling.

"You hear me talking ...?" ... said Marsellus. I scoured the earth for this shyt and it's on the tip of my tongue. It's a different kind of equation than most mathematicians are used to and it's just my game.

Thank you guys I will look more into it. Poker is just a small part of i like i mentioned I do it in all aspects of life. Will also probably start medication after talking to another psychologist. Fun Fact is I never ever have these problems when i smoke weed or hash.

Maybe you have an overwhelming need for control. Bad things will happen repeatedly to anyone in poker. They're easier to take if you feel they're less capricious because you had a hand in them.
Maybe learn to just keep doing your best and accept that everyone has bad outcomes sometimes, no matter what you do, but your good outcomes will outweigh the bad more than others if you just let things slide when they're against you.
I'd move way down in stakes until this becomes a solid reality for you.

I think self destructive habits come from two main sources one would be failure to cope with issues and seeking habits like drugs to conceal them and the other is poor self image like unworthiness or undeserving. Not a doctor here just observations of friends family and my self. Maybe you feel like you don't deserve good things because of something that happened to you I don't know but I would really hope that you get a counselor to work this out I don't think we can help much but I'll say some prayers for you bro things will turn around soon enough it always does if you hang in there



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If i play bad on purpose, it is because of tilt. That is an attitude problem and there can be some understanding of reasons but it is up to me to change my attitude, like giving the mind the priority to do the right thing, to let the brain do the right thing.

I have only seen that psychology knows the phenomenon of self sabotage, so it is up to them to find where your problem is. As so u might find info also, and it figures to need a book or more, preferably professional and about that subject.

I'm getting ready to do it, play bad on purpose, and here's my reason: I'm one session past giving an F. Tonight was session 54, showing up at the room innocently hoping for anything other than total death configuration of the deck, and all 54 times, I got death configuration of the deck. Never seen it in 1/3 century of steady play, as I've been saying. Mike Caro used to write about this ... when it doesn't even hurt any more and you are past caring, past having a rational response to it. That's exactly where I am. I will not look at my hand in my next session, I refuse to watch this run anymore. I'm pouring the chips in there without looking;; it can't be worse than losing every hand you play and missing every flop. I know all about running good and running bad, and intenser versions of each. I did not know this run was possible. If you want some plus EV, come to Lucky's PLO on Monday. I've been leaving the game, retiring from it, and that's gonna be my swan song. These hands that look like someone spent 10 minutes cooling the deck, over and over and over and over, with no winners in between ... I've had one more session of it than I can take. I was warned years ago by a player a lot better than me that there are such streaks. I'm past my ability to respond with deliiberation and almost did something that could have got me arrested tonight. That's not me. "Not caring" about the result, of course is a defense mechanism in action ... because we do care very much. That's fine. I'm in the shadow zone. I am not a computer and I don't want to be, don't admire those who fancy themselves such. I'm pouring it in without looking. If you feel lucky come to Lucky's.

What a mind-**** poker can be.

Good comment. It didn't attack or insult ... just stated a truth about the game that applies across the board.

Hello OP - I've got quite a lot of experience in mental health and self-destructive behaviour in one form or another is pretty common - what you seem to be doing is not especially rare, though by no means easy to understand - really the best way to understand it is taking to a professional


this worries me - if your therapist is not able to help you shed light on the problem then probably they are either not very good or you may not be giving them a proper chance - are there any ways in which you might be sabotaging your therapy? - might discussing this on 2+2 rather than with him /her be one way of doing this.

Honestly this is not impossible to overcome but you have to really want to - - there is something quite addictive about thinking how life might have been or might be. maybe chewing this over on 2+2 is not really trying to solve the problem

Sorry if this is harsh GL in trying to solve your problem

Hugh, some thoughts:
-how are you sure that you have the skillset to beat the games? MTTs are a high variance game, and many players on this forum have fallen into the trap of going on a heater early on, and then losing for years and years, still holding onto images of those first scores.

-how much effort have you put into therapy? how often do you go? did you let them know what you expect from therapy in the first session? do you request that they give you "homework" to work on in the space between sessions?



Curious question of my own: how were you able to afford to lose 140k in the last 2 years? Is someone staking you, are you using your savings, is a family member giving you the money? Whatever you decide to do, the first thing I'd suggest is to make that person stop giving you money. If it's your own money, cut yourself off. Grind micros. Whatever your issue is, buying into the stakes you're likely playing is very -EV. If you won't quit altogether, at least banish yourself to the micros until you fix the problems. For winning players, higher stakes is a reward for playing good. You don't deserve to play there yet, and it's also possible that your skillset doesn't merit you playing there either.

There's a ton of work ahead of you if you decide to try making it work. The good news is that being aware that you have a problem is the first step to making changes. GL

Look at the bright side, you probably have the skills to beat live poker, give online up if its not working. You keep playing expecting a different result, thats the definitlion on insanity.

+1, not harsh at all. Great advice. I think you should focus on this post.

Based on my amateurish knowledge base negative self-image/unworthiness is a common root (that you'll have to dig deep to uncover). Do you play poorly and self sabotage because you don't want to deal with the possibility/challenge/anxiety/disappointment of still giving 100% and failing? Any connections to avoidance in other areas of life? How might this relate to a certain idea you have about yourself? Write some things out on paper & see where it takes you. Bring that in to your therapist & discuss.

Dont get the impression this is a poker skill or potential ability problem. Mindfulness & living in the current moment will help too

What's
Important
Now

= WIN & a helpful acronym to think about when your mind starts to wander at the poker table.

Gl!