I'm going thru a prolonged downswing (about 100 limit big bets from the high point 3 weeks ago). This isn't my first rodeo, not my first long downswing, and I know I have a significant edge. But it's really really really hard not to care when you rack up 10 losing days in a row.

I try to emphasize the pursuit of excellence in process. This has the benefit of filling my mind with a performance metric that's not results-based -- e.g. making sure I'm following all the live action, working on small technical adjustments to minimize tells, standing up at the table because it's healthier, etc. Indeed, not even making little sarcastic grumbles about beats at the table (sarcastic comments like, "Of course" or "I run good") is part of the mindset I try to cultivate. All those do is give me an excuse for negativity.


Still, it's hard to totally put the bad results out of my mind. Lately I'm slipping and grumbling. Any suggestions?

Take a break.......

I'm sure you've heard this before, and probably have taken breaks before. But it works!

The longer you stay away from poker the more you'll apprciate it...in the mean time you just keep re-playing the hands over and over again in your head. Works for me.

May & June I played a gross amount of hours. Partly because I made a lot of money during June 2010, so I just figured I could double that this year, and partly because the series was in town -Vegas. May 2012 was a decent month for me, however June 2012 was a total let down. I had built myself up thinking I was going to earn X amount of money then it didn't happen. I kept losing pots that I thought I'd win, had several major losing sessions, and then got grumpy. OP, I know the exact comment you mentioned, or maybe just personal thoughts soemtimes. I had a bad attitude and finally admitted it to myself. To make matters worse I was playing every single day, I'm embarssed to admit how mnay hours I played during June, but suffice to say no one played more than me.

Fast forward, currently its late July. The last time I took a hand was the last week of June. I made a decision to take 6 weeks off. Very hard for someone who plays 30+ hrs a week on a slow week.
I scheduled some things in life to do to keep me busy. Hang out w/ freinds and go fishing w/ my son, go to the state fair, take a week vacation, I purposely scheduled a dentist appointment August 17, 2012..LOL. I'm going back to the work on August 22, on a Wednsday, lol.

I can tell you the first week was tough to be away from the table, then it got eaiser. Now I'm REALYY missing it. Everyday I re-play the hands and situations thats caused me -EV and think through them better and more objectively so I can learn from those "mistakes" and not make a habit of it. Now I'm about 4 weeks away from my self imposed hiatus from the game, I'm thinking poker everyday, and truly crave it now. Although I'm away from the felt, right now I'm spending 30+ hours per week "learning" to be a better player. I'm sure I'll go back w/ a better attitude, knowledge, and patients to play my best.

Take some time off!!!!!!!!

best wishes...

IF you're B&M then 10 session downswing of 100BB is nothing. If you're multi-tabling 4 games online then 100BB is really nothing -- even if you're just playing limit.

But quite honestly, this almost seems like a brag to me as a 10 session downswing will break most under bankrolled players and drive the smarter ones to smaller limits.

You just gotta be able to see the humor in bad players making terrible plays. IF they're funny when they lose, the should be just as funny when they win.

You need to work on your mindset more. Its obv not 100% and I wont play until its 100% or very close to 100%.
Taking a break wont be a bad idea. Read/reread mindset books and write a journal. If you think you are ready, when playing, watch out for any slight mental distractions, if so leave the table or even quit for the day.
I dont think there is a simple solution, its something you have to work on constantly until it becomes part of your natural reaction.
Good luck!

It's good advice in general. My situation is somewhat different in that I'm going to have an enforced "break" from playing poker seriously when school starts in September and I won't have any time to play. Therefore I'd like to get as many hours as possible in from now until then. Naturally, I need to be very careful to make sure this isn't leading to an attitude of gorging myself on poker and not playing my best.

It seems like that criterion would lead to only sporadic play. I tend to believe in constant improvement and that very few of us are anywhere near 100%. Not caring about results is very much counter to human nature and only rare individuals can really say they've "arrived" there.

Although I try to be self-aware and not let the leaks in my mindset affect my cognitive processes, rarely (1-2 times per session) does this psychological leak lead me to a marginal mistake -- in addition to other mistakes that I would make anyway, of course. Even supposing that this mild tilt drops me from a $20/hr winner to $15/hr, it's still better to play than to not play, right?

And I really think I'm being conservative in overestimating its effect.

I don't see your point about it sounding like a brag. Bragging about my bankroll management? Bragging about not moving down would be false -- I have moved down, even though in theory my bankroll could still support the higher stakes.

Good advice.

I would have to disagree with you. Yes caring about results is a counter to human nature however I believe you can 'train' yourself. This belief stems from the aspect of, for example, living in the present. The majority of people dont really think that way, whether its worrying about the future or thinking about the past. But with practice, you can actually put your thought process in the present, very difficult but with training its possible. Just like the natural reaction when someone punches you is to punch them back, however its takes alot of effort not to react. So giving in on our nature is not a good reason.

As far as the win ratio with your mistakes, I guess that is true if you can actually hold your losses to an amount where your actually +EV. Very difficult to do though.

It seems that you have the answers to your question. I am really not sure what you are looking for here in this thread. Good luck anyways!

^Thats an awesome statement/question.

For me, its that exact question that really hits home. I'm struggling to "answer" that myself. Although I kinda think I already know the answer, but just don't like it so I'm having a hard time accpeting it.

FWIW, I had this thought that if I played a lot of hours and my hourly rate deminished a little bit it wouldn't be a big deal because I could overcome the slightly less per hour, by playing more hours. At the end of the "long hours" (1 1/2 months) I'd make more money, and my "net" income would be more....so I was willing to put in the hours to end up making more money. Guess what? It didn't work for me either.

I played 243 hours in the first three weeks of June, just prior I had played 171 hours during 3 weeks of May, and took one week off at the end of May before playing everyday again in June. Thats a LOT of hours by any standard in such a short time frame.

You're reporting about a 20% loss in hourly, $20 to $15. My expercine was the longer and the more hours I played it only got worse. It started as a 10-15% loss in my hourly, and then by the time I choose to take a "break" I was down to about 60% of my historic hourly. As a small stakes player when you're faced with a 40% drop in earnings, to me anyway, this sets off red-flags that something is really wrong and needs fixed right away. Couple this with wanting to make money and have some type of enjoyment playing poker, but faced w/ reality of making less than minimum wage, or worse losing money, and all of a sudden playing poker doesn't seem like so much "fun".
I thought maybe its just some bad varience that I've never experienced before, but lookign through my records this didn't make since because I rarley have losing months, in fact only 3 in two years, and have NEVER had losing or greatly reduced income months back-to-back. So I kept asking myself, whats wrong? What am I doing different? Are the players better all of sudden and I missed the boat somehwere? Am I really playing that bad all of sudden? Am I taking more chances, more risk, willing to gamble more, now than previously?
After answering no to myself on most of the tuff questions, I did have a yes to one of them...I was playing more hours and thought I'd could make more $ in the long run...even if my hourly slipped a little.
When I wasn't making as much as I *thought* I should be and this only compounded matters and next I found myself w/ a bad attitude, and grumpy, and maybe a little entitlement mentatily in that I somehow "deserved" to make more....all wrapped into one form of tilt or another, a losing proposition regardless how its viewed.
Then came the day when I just made up my mind that I was taking some time off. I was sitting at the table, on auto-pilot, when I had this revelation, and menetioned it to one of the chip runner that I'm pretty good freinds with. This guy is always happy and has great people skills and just a joy to be around, never has anything bad to say about anyone, ect..just truly a nice guy. Anyway, he looked at me, called my by name and said "its funny you say that, because I've noticed a difference in you...you' don't seem to be as happy and freindly". WOW...I was floored! That was exactly what I needed to hear. Within 30 minuntes my chips were in the rack and I was walking out the door, and haven't been back since, LOL

Things in life have a way of working out. Sometimes when you press to hard, and want it to much, whatever you want doesn't happen. I'm not advocating being lazy, or not being focused, or taking your game seriously, or being a good student of the game...I'm just saying some time off seems to work wonders.

OP...best wishes in school this fall! I'm prolly close a generation older than you and have 2 sons, one of which has already graduated college and is a fine young man...and one hell of a poker player! My other son is in highschool and BEGS me to "get him in" a Casino to play poker....of course he's not old enough yet.

That's basically the right answer. The only thing I could add to it is that you need to put yourself in a situation where you can afford to ignore the results and focus on the process.

That means having the right financial background and the right social and mental environment. I.e you not feeling the need to prove to your friends and yourself that your a winner.

The rest is just practice.

I think this is the main problem. In general, unless you are well, well aware of an external pressure and are able to live with it, it would have an impact on your game.
So, you are not playing for fun but because "you have to".
Does it ring a bell inside of you ? I truly think that you should live the present moment to its fullest. Right now, you play more and enjoy this process less and not only because of variance.
Are you having a good time playing and losing right now ? Do you feel entangled in the thought process of being forced to play ?
I would feel bad missing a day of poker if I know it would be hard after X amount of time to be able to play again. I would feel chained to a hobby which can pay me a bit. I would get away from that hobby for a few days - a week would do for me - try something new or enjoy friends and sun and then come back at it.

Don't see the break from the game as something that would kill your profit, you seem to be actually killing your profit by playing, see it as a way to really enjoy the summer without having to study anything. Take it as a way to get more EV from your game because you would feel rested and "free".
This is a +EV move because your brain is tired of playing everyday just because "you have to". It needs rest as any other part of your body.

I enjoy myself and I'm a better player by playing when I have a real attraction to the game. I think being forced to play would have an impact on my game. And this motivation comes from reviewing my mistakes and bettering myself and enjoying myself by playing the guitar for example. I have such a huge motivation coming from it

I think the thread has been successful in opening up the kind of discussion I wanted to have on the topic. I realize that all general advice needs to be contextualized to the individual, so that's why I'm not running out and committing to a 6-week break. But the discussion is really valuable.

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Today I did something rare: I quit early to lock in a winning day. It is a bit juvenile, and theoretically incorrect if you're a bot, but when you're on a streak of 11 losing days in a row -- granted, that includes minus-1 and minus-20 dollar days -- it's good just to book that win.