Hi all,

First of all, I'm kind of new to posting on this forum. This is one of my first posts, I have been reading here a lot though. This might belong more to a psych/addiction forum but I feel like some of you can help me or can relate to my problem. I tried to explain it as good as I can I might have forgot to write something down, but feel free to ask me questions.

Short introduction on how I got into poker:



By the age of 18 or so, I got hooked on the game again though. I heard an old classmate bragging about some wins in poker tournaments. (which was something like $1300 or so). This fascinated me and I felt like I could do this, I had been studying the game more and felt like this guy was just lucky and I could surpass this easily if I put in some hours. This got me into depositing some more money and studying the game more. I turned like $40 into a few hundred $ by playing SNG's. This made me feel amazing, although it was more the result of luck... but little did I know.
This went on for a few months with breaks in between. I won sometimes, but mostly lost. I also played tournaments which I kinda played bad in. I still refused to sit down, apply bankrollmanagement and get in some decent volume at the appropriate stakes. This resulted in bad playes, tilt sessions and playing above my limits.

By the time the year was over I lost $2000 or so, which was huge cash to me back then (I only earned a few hundred per month or so). I was still in highschool though and living with my parents, so I could afford it somehow.

After this losses I stopped again for a few months/ half a year because it had such a financial impact. I got hooked on it again though by the age of 19, and haven't looked back ever since.
I started learning about the game by viewing strategy video's, reading on forums like this and reviewing my game. I started implementing game strategy in my game and started playing low stakes MTT's again. This time it worked out: I went on a hot streak and crushed some big fields. Winning a few thousand euro's in only a few months. This made me feel really great. Because it covered my losses and this time it didn't felt like gambling.

I read more and more about the whole poker community and started realizing I could make a fortune by playing poker. I even fascinated about making it my primary job Not having to follow a study and making way more money then my peers sounded amazing to me. I was studying in university by that time but kind of had no interest in it, and dropped out by the end of the year. By that time I was around 20 and was still playing poker. I was up a few thousand $ which made me financially stable again. I started playing midstakes MTT's occasionally and a lot of low stakes, left the micro's behind me. This resulted in some bigger wins (up to 3k+ scores), but also bigger downswings of around $1500.

I kind of went on a flatline for months which made me question about my game. I realized after some stat reviewing/reading that I was not a top notch player and my chances of making it any further were really low. This made me question if I wasn't just still playing this game for the sake of gambling and money, not because of strategy and improvement.

Since I have always been affected by huge wins/losses, tilt and the rush of playing this seemed like a fair story. A part of me however does like the strategy of the game and loves the math behind it and the psychology of reading players for example.
It's only that the gambling/compulsive part of takes over too much, making it a pretty pathetic habit. I also realized that poker just fills up the empty gaps in my life. Since I dealed with a lot of problems that I'm still recovering from/experiencing now. The gambling aspect or strategy aspect just gets me hooked from time to time. Add the chance of winning big money, ultimately it makes it almost impossible to run away from it. I feel like poker has consumed me.
Since I realized this in the last 6 months I tried stopping the game and excluding myself from Pstars. However I still ended up playing 2 months of that 6 months. to make it worse I also went on a 100 BI downswing. But that didn't made me from stopping. I just mask the losses by reviewing my game and studying the game, making me think it's just variance (which it is actually lol, but also bad bankrollmanagement). After a break I just start playing "fresh" again and win some cash back eventually, or lose but accept it because it wasn't just me spewing money.

What I tried to make clear is that I'm not just a compulsive/pathological gambler which spews his money on poker. I actually love the game a lot and love watching/playing it. However, it does still affect me emotionally because the small part of me is interested in the rush of poker. Note that I rarely gamble on other games, I only go to a live casino with friends a few times a year and there I just play for fun - not caring about losing or the money aspect in generally.

At poker this all different though, because I WANT to become better, WANT to win a lot of money so I can move forward. I just don't have the patience to slowly build a roll and move up stakes slowly... So in the end it's just me binging on the poker rushes and filling this up with a bit of strategy and love for the game - to make it all sound like a real, non-pathetic story to me.

In the end I know I will never play at the high stakes online or play the EPT circuit profitably, just because I'm not a top notch player. I know I could achieve being in the top 0.5%... but lower then that, I don't think so.

I have a hard time accepting this though, and can't turn my back to poker. I feel like it's all to late. I can relate fully to the statement made by Dan Colman labeling poker as a dark game and I myself would never advise someone in a million years to become a poker pro, Yet I fantasize and strive to be in that position.

I hope someone can help me with this or got some good advice. I feel like I'm on the verge of a big depression by the fact that this game has affected my whole life so much and is still consuming me more and more.

Thank you.

No matter how good you are, poker shouldn't be looming so large in your life. Here are some of my thoughts.
-wanting to become successful is not enough. homeless guys probably secretly want to be successful. they, like you, aren't willing to put in the effort to do it.
-based on your results so far, you'll never be in the top 0.5%. I think you're probably a fish, and you can use this to motivate you if you want.
-bad variance is the most hilarious excuse that fish like to use to blame their terrible plays.

yea i doubt OP is a winning player, id suggest using poker simply as a somewhat cheap hobby for yourself. never consider mtt poker as a career profession.

Message me bro. Tried to PM you but it wouldn't send

Let's get realistic my man.

You're 20 years old. If you wanted, you could absolutely make a living playing poker one day. But you have a few things to take care of first.

1) DISCIPLINE
2) DISCIPLINE
3) DISCIPLINE
4) DISCIPLINE
5) DISCIPLINE

Seriously, all of the problems you stated could be fixed with discipline. It affects bankroll management, work ethic, decision making, tilt, etc. Discipline is a muscle, so use it.

At the end of the day, you can be as good as you want to be. It's really entirely up to you. But if you don't truly love the game & work to correct your leaks, you're better off leaving it as a hobby

1. I am aware of that, I know that I have to put in large amounts of work (studying + playing hours)
2. I am not sure where I belong or where I can be. According my attitude and lack of discipline I consider myself a fish yes. Results wise though I am a winning player over thousands of games. Even with all those tilt sessions and shots at higher games.

Strategy wise I also don't consider myself bad. I calculate spots/lines, use pokersoftware and I'm reading about strategy consistently. All the things fish don't do. It's just the lack of discipline that gets me.

3. I am not blaming variance, I know it's part of the game. Making bad plays is affecting me way more.

I tried that, but poker keeps sucking me in more and more everytime. It takes large amounts of my time. Somehow I can't just play every now and then, because there is money involved ultimately. I know I'm not gonna make it either as a pro with this mindset. Maybe it's better to quit completely, but that's super hard for me. Even after 3 months off I get urges to play.

You totally have a point here, yes lack of discipline is a problem. It is difficult to fix though if you have a somewhat addictive personality. I identified all the factors that affect me in my game, but I have a hard time managing them correctly.

Seems like I can't send PM's yet due to my lack of posts?

I didn't read your OP, but this paragraph sounds like a gambling addiction.

Correct. After an unspecified amount of time and posts, PMs will be activated. I don't know why that other poster wants you to PM him anyway -- if he wants to give you advice, then it should be out here for others, not just you.

Aren't most poker players in fact addicts? To become better I'd say you have to be consumed by the game in some way. Emotions are always involved and even the best players might still feel bad after losing a big pot or feel extremely happy if they run good - while that's not even in their control.

I've been chronicling my poker career for the last year or so in the PGC, it's called "Collars Pop, Panties Drop!" Feel free to check it out so you have something to base this advice off of. Keep in mind, this is coming from somebody who is doing it, successfully.

In all honesty- quit now.

Some of you may ooooooo and awwwwwh, but realistically, games are only getting tougher and the days of being able to make heaps playing solely LLSNL are nearly over. I should know, I'm attempting a prop bet at 1/3 which I've detailed in my thread, and I can barely keep my patience. I've been playing deep 2/5 and some 5/10 for the past year or so and I don't see myself wanting to do that for the remainder of my life, or really even another 5 years, where as to most, this is a goal they'll never reach. I look around and see the same fat pieces of **** sliming around the room day and night, the self proclaimed "regs" who glue to the chairs and stare at their iPads for 10 hours. It's a disgusting environment, and yeah, while the freedom is nice, and the "pros" are decent. The plain fact is the cons outweigh the pros indefinitely.

Now, I'm sure there are plenty of serial two plus two-ers who are going to say this advice is "absurd" and the fact that "they don't ever have to answer to anybody" is just the absolute nuts. They're wrong. They continue because they are in too deep and have a resume gap wider then their uninsured front teeth. To sum it up in four words, it's not worth it. Do something meaningful man, something with purpose. You won't regret it.

No, most poker players are not gambling addicts. Yes, you have to spend a lot of time in order to be good, but that's different than not being able to moderate your time spent on the game and not being able to quit.

Since you play MTTs, your results could easily be skewed. I've played against some horrendous players who somehow managed to bink a 16k win in an MTT, early on, and 1000s of games later keep dropping and dropping...

And that lack of discipline is the difference between a good fish that eventually tilts, and a solid winning player. Your OP title alone shows you have a negative mindset about the game, and negativity is an uphill battle to fight. I'd start there. GL

No offense, but this is something fish whine about all the time. If you searched threads on 2p2 from 2007, 2010, 2014 there's always FISH claiming the games have now gotten so tough that only the sites are making money.

Yet there are millionaires playing the games online. There are literally several thousand players online making 6 figures a year. The games are still beatable, but they aren't the super soft fish fests that they may have been at some point.

I wanted to share an experience I had when I was in a similar mindset. But it's a bit long & OP might be the only one that wants to hear it.

The lesson from my experience was:
God will help you with all of your problems, if you ask him. I initially asked for his help to become a better poker player

One prayer led me to opportunities & a complete overhaul of my mindset.
It can't hurt to try man. Eventually the truth will set you free

Success is defined in many different ways.

The games are tougher, but the best players will still be long-term winners.

There's really 2 options:
1) You decide your purpose is to be a Poker Pro. This is an attainable goal, but once you're playing full time you're left with an empty feeling. You become unhappy & you'll likely burn out.

2) You decide your purpose is to become the best Poker player you can possibly be. Your main goal is to improve everyday, not make $$ off the donk in seat 4. Your life has meaning, bc you're constantly learning & growing as a player.

Players from category 1 are a dime a dozen. You'll see them at your local cardroom, miserable & grinding through their session on autopilot, only focused on making $$ for the day.

Players from category 2 are rare. You won't often see them in your local cardroom because they're too busy moving up stakes. They eventually become the "best" players as we know them.

You decide your own purpose

Seeing as how I clearly said LLSNL live low stakes no limit, you're point is null.

I know these players too, but I'm not of that kind. Well I belonged to that group in my first year(s) expect I didn't really had any big results back then. Luckily enough, cause that caused me to play better. Since then I've improved quite a lot playing HU, hypers, SNG's and MTT's.

Overall I have a quite negative view on how it played out now, but still I like the game strategy wise when you when you leave out all the emotional drama. (Which is influenced by my life outside poker too). My priority now is cutting back on poker and getting my life in order. I have some great goals for this year and next coming years.
I will play poker occasionally and keep reading here on 2+2 and watch some stuff.


Thanks for your advice, I consider myself Atheist though. Moreover I'd like to keep track on my own problems. Even if someone could switch my life around with one click I wouldn't accept it.

My cards are already dealt, I just have to play them in the right way. Peace

You are point is null? I took your point and overgeneralized it a bit, yes. However, people who unilaterally determine that certain games can no longer be crushed are using that excuse as a crutch.


OP, glad to know that you've considered whether it is luck, and have determined that you have skills. Even better, that you're trying to get some life balance. These will definitely serve you well.

This is very true. Also, there are many players capable of making a few thousand up to maybe 10 grand a year in poker who are miles and miles away from being able to play the game as a living. There is usually a huge difference between the skill level of the latter to the former.

RLG I like your OP. It mirrors pretty well how I see poker. I had/have similar problems to moderate myself. I am able to do it, but very often I work out and the only thing on my mind is "God, I just want to sit in my chair and play some poker. Why do I workout instead".

I don't have a solution or advice for you. I have similar struggles and somehow I am able to force myself to have a life instead of getting consumed by poker. But it is a big struggle.

Yes these thoughts work like a poison, the good thing is that it gets you playing. The bad thing is that it doesn't let you stop playing when you are not doing well or have other things to do in life.

A quick update:

I'm currently a short week off playing poker, feeling pretty good at the moment. Already feeling I'm less consumed by the game. I'm thinking 75% less about poker during the day and I have more interest in socializing and other activities. Also working a lot at the moment, figured I can pay off my downswing by end of this month. Which makes me also feel a bit better

I also excluded myself for 2 months from Pokerstars. I can't play or deposit at the moment at all.

If your.... addiction I guess.... is so big why don't you just take time to improve to at least be breakeven or slight winner for smallest limit you can find that way you can actually finance your addiction instead of thinking about it 24/7. And no games are not unbeatable...