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Old 07-07-2012, 10:58 AM   #1
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Dreadful entitlement tilt

I just can't seem to kick it.

Time and time again I'll take my time and slowly work my way up beating the micro limits, but I just can't for the life of me stomach the downswings and the badbeats once they start to really build up and cost much more than 3 or 4 buy-ins.

I can take losing flips and I can take standard spots in which I'm unlucky, but when time and time again my opponents call off 1/4 of their stack to a cold 4-bet with 22 and hit a set against my overpair or draw to a flush they so clearly don't have the odds for, the fact that they have been rewarded for bad play (even though I know full well that it is short term) gives me this horrendous sick feeling. I don't tilt-spew or anything really poor like that, normally I'll just quit and be done with it, but I never seem able to really grind the hours needed to be successful.

Now obviously I don't rationalize my reaction as "rargh I'm better than they are why should they win etc.", but at the same time with a bit of introspection and self-honesty I can tell that that is what I'm reacting to.

I've studied poker fairly solidly over the past 2 years I've been playing, and consider myself to know the game reasonably well, but I just don't have the ability to persevere beyond break-even.

Is there anyone else for whom this was their main obstacle whilst their technical ability in Poker was genuinely enough to have some modest success?

EDIT: I should finally state that in terms of rationality I'm well aware of how stupid this is, but its impossible to really rationalize yourself out of an emotional reaction.

Last edited by Rastamouse; 07-07-2012 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:16 AM   #2
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Re: Dreadful entitlement tilt

Have you read any psychology books? I think they'd help you understand your faults and motivations.

The beats will never stop. I think it's likely that you have leaks that are preventing you from becoming a winning player. Missing value? Value betting too thin? Bluffing too much, not enough or in the wrong spots? I've been studying this game for ten years now and I know that I still have a lot to learn.

Welcome to the forums.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:30 AM   #3
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Re: Dreadful entitlement tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob148 View Post
Have you read any psychology books? I think they'd help you understand your faults and motivations.

The beats will never stop. I think it's likely that you have leaks that are preventing you from becoming a winning player. Missing value? Value betting too thin? Bluffing too much, not enough or in the wrong spots? I've been studying this game for ten years now and I know that I still have a lot to learn.

Welcome to the forums.
Oh goodness me I'm well aware that I'm not the perfect player at all and love the fact that I have plenty to learn, I see it as potential.

But I can't consistently beat anything above 10nl without at some point losing my rag, deleting my database and giving up. (At 10nl my success was consistent and cushy enough for me to keep going, although there's no doubt that I was quite bored with it quite quickly).

At levels where a winrate like 2-4bbs/100 is very solid and consistent indeed. Ups and downs on a big scale will of course come your way. I really just need to somehow force myself to be able to press on no matter what the results are, which I'm still finding difficult.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:55 AM   #4
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Re: Dreadful entitlement tilt

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Originally Posted by Rastamouse View Post
Oh goodness me I'm well aware that I'm not the perfect player at all and love the fact that I have plenty to learn, I see it as potential.

. I really just need to somehow force myself to be able to press on no matter what the results are, which I'm still finding difficult.
The first part is an excellent attitude. I don't play no limit, but I think that forcing yourself to play is the wrong way to go about it. It's one thing if you can let the beats roll, it's quite another thing to be able to feel tilt and recover. You may not be going on monkey tilt, but if you're thinking about the beats then that's time wasted that could be otherwise used to fine tune your strategy according to game conditions. If I find my mind wandering, I take a break. When I'm really on my game I can force myself to focus on strategy, but that's not all the time.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:57 AM   #5
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Re: Dreadful entitlement tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastamouse View Post
Oh goodness me I'm well aware that I'm not the perfect player at all and love the fact that I have plenty to learn, I see it as potential.

But I can't consistently beat anything above 10nl without at some point losing my rag, deleting my database and giving up. (At 10nl my success was consistent and cushy enough for me to keep going, although there's no doubt that I was quite bored with it quite quickly).

At levels where a winrate like 2-4bbs/100 is very solid and consistent indeed. Ups and downs on a big scale will of course come your way. I really just need to somehow force myself to be able to press on no matter what the results are, which I'm still finding difficult.
With all due respect mate, if you can't consistently beat 25NL you have some serious flaws in your game. But, being open and critiquing yourself is a good thing. That is the first step to improving. So you're definitely on the correct track. Could you possibly be playing too many tables? That is something I struggled with for a few years, it really killed my win rate. I was impressed and wanted to be a 16 tabling 3/6 reg like all these sickos I would see online. Eventually I had to be honest with myself and know that 4-6 tabling 2/4 was my perfect comfort level.

If there are any books I suggest that you read they are "Professional No Limit Hold 'Em: Volume I." and "Small Stakes No Limit Hold Em" both written by Ed Miller. Those are actually volumes 1 and 2. (the other isn't listened as volume 2 because it was published by a different company I believe). But these two books will really improve your game.

So I really suggest you invest 20-40 dollars and read these two books. Not just once, a second time, maybe even three times. That way you can really absorb the info and get better. Use a highliter and take notes. Purchase a poker tracking software, that is a priceless tool for a cash player. Just commit yourself to really working on your game, and being able to remain composed when the cards dont fall your way. I left my job for good back in 2004 to pursue poker full time, in hindsight I see I wasnt as good as I really thought I was initially. A couple years later I re dedicated myself to getting over my tilt issues and improving my game.

Also don't forget, the psychology of poker and being able to handle the swings is just as important as skill, maybe even more. If you have any questions at all, feel free to PM me. Good luck.
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:43 PM   #6
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Re: Dreadful entitlement tilt

It is an issue you can teach yourself to resolve,

The reason your issue cannot be rationalised with is because it is held in the sub-conscious rather than conscious mind. It sounds like on an emotional level you believe better play should guarantee results on a hand to hand basis rather than over thousands of hands. You are looking for control, when in reality better play gives you a statistical edge rather than a certainty.

Try and accept and be grateful for variance as it is the reason fish come back. That guy may play his 2,2 time and time again due to that hand and that's a great thing for more educated players in the long run.

You don't get weak players gambling frequently on chess as there is little variance, the better player will almost always win. The only reason poker can be profitable is due to the possibility of the underdog sometimes taking a pot. Smile and be grateful when these rare hands come up as they bring more money to a game where you hold an edge.

Feel free to PM me
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:33 PM   #7
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Re: Dreadful entitlement tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by elliot10181 View Post
It is an issue you can teach yourself to resolve,

The reason your issue cannot be rationalised with is because it is held in the sub-conscious rather than conscious mind. It sounds like on an emotional level you believe better play should guarantee results on a hand to hand basis rather than over thousands of hands. You are looking for control, when in reality better play gives you a statistical edge rather than a certainty.

Try and accept and be grateful for variance as it is the reason fish come back. That guy may play his 2,2 time and time again due to that hand and that's a great thing for more educated players in the long run.

You don't get weak players gambling frequently on chess as there is little variance, the better player will almost always win. The only reason poker can be profitable is due to the possibility of the underdog sometimes taking a pot. Smile and be grateful when these rare hands come up as they bring more money to a game where you hold an edge.

Feel free to PM me
Good post.
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