Hi 2+2,


firstly, I have to apologize for my poor english, please go easy on me if I make a few mistakes, however, I hope that I can transmit my question.

I have a been a Nanostakes Grinder for the most of my Poker Career (with exception for half a year between 07-08, when I was grinding $20 SnGs and were actually making some good money for a couple of months, until I had to cash it out for RL stuff and have never been able to rebuild)

A couple of weeks ago I decided to make a change about my Poker habits, leave SnG play behind me and learn PLO, a game I´ve always enjoyed much, but which costed me a nice amount of the money I won in SnGs over the years because I was pretty much a horrible player.

I was aware that if I want to achive sth in this game I have to buckle up, hit the books and 2+2, studying, studying studying, which I did.

I studied the Jeff Hwang Book triology+workbook with a lot of success, I browsed hand discusions in the 2+2 forum, developed thought processes, looking for spots were I would have played it differently etc etc..

To make it short, after about 2 months of intense work on my PLO game I would say that I know basically everything there is to know about the game for me at this point now, and further developement can only come from expirience

I played Nanostakes PLO with a lot of success as well in August (about 7.5 ptbb/100 at PLO2 and 5 over approx. 25k hands)

But unfortunatley, this is where the problems come into play: My Bankroll is now just shy of $500, so I feel compelled to take at least some shots at PL10, but I´am so afraid about protecting my Bankroll that I even chicken out to play PL5 as a main game and still stick to PL2 with 250bbBI´s)

And to make it even worse: If I hit a bad session at PLO2, dropping like 10-15 bucks which is obviously superstandard, I surely take the shots at PLO5 and start to spew there if I don´t run good.

These habbits are obv terribad and will always prevent me from becoming a successfull player, I ran my BR up to about 600ish with HU SnGs earlier this year, but lost it all when I had a bad run when shotting the $22 level, dropping the rest on tilt at PLO50 HU because I could not take it to drop from about $650 to $570 and I am really afraid that this could happen to me again.

I have watched some TV poker recently, seeing durrr losing a 70k pot in a random cashgame which did nt even bother him so much that he would stop talking about random stuff to another player at the table, this was basically when I realized whats wrong with me as a poker player

How is this possible? How can I leave always thinking about the money behind me and just focussing on developing as a player? What have you guys done to improve your mindset?


thx for your help

Start with realizing how wrong this is.

Players often deal with the misconception that their winrate reflects their intelligence, or self worth. In your mind you are crushing the microstakes (you have an average winrate) and know everything about plo (also wrong) and are afraid when you move up to higher stakes you may have to deal with how conclusively wrong you were (correct). Don't misinterpret my post as saying there is something wrong with your skill level, there isnt anything wrong or bad about being a beginner, everyone starts somewhere. But you are still a beginner. You need to approach the game as such. If you want to move through the stakes, take small shots, lose a bit of money, and as you learn from your mistakes and improve you will slowly and steadily rise through the stakes. No matter how hard you try poker will never be a steady path, no amount of studying and playing at comfortable limits will remove the bumps in the road at higher stakes. You need to be realistic with your approach to the game, protect your bankroll while taking shots, and keep learning.

Of coarse you can also keep playing 2 and 5 plo for the rest of your life if you like.

Nothing wrong with having a conservative BRM imo, especially for PLO.
You have bad experiences of blowing your roll on a tilt or a bad run which happens to everybody so you feel a bit of anxiety and you are extra carefull not to go that road again.
I see nothing bad about this, it means you learned from your mistakes or at least trying to.
I think the only thing you can do is just continue to play games you feel comfortable with until you develop a better mental control over your bankroll management.

I´d say make clear BRM goals and follow them religiously.
Move up when X BIs and move down when Y BIs etc.
Figure out X and Y and go.

move out of your moms basment imo, get a job and $500 wont seem like much.

Read a self-help book. It will give you inspiration.

*mums basement

*get a job and you'll see how hard you have to work to make $500

thx for the replies guy´s, I feel I should add a few points:

@whirleymob: Plz don't get me wrong, I would never consider myself a competent PLO Player that just has to strive through the limits to the nosebleeds or something like that, what I was trying to elaborate is that I have learned and understood basics concepts that are introduced by common PLO Literature and are now ready to apply these concepts at the tables, and learn from my mistakes

I am totally aware that I will always have to question my game, analyize my plays and keep adjusting. Sorry if I expressed myself in a way that could be missunderstood.


@FlipFlop

That advice with the strict management rules is good, but the problem is that I don't stick to them because I'm just afraid to move up.


@bubonic:

you're right, I am a busto tard, but I don't life in my mom's basement anymore
However, its not that I chicken out because I really need the money offline, the about 350 extra Euros I'd get would be nice to have but would not signifcantly improve my overall financial situation.

I do feel that it is the better play to keep them online and see how far I can get.


@Grindhouse: thought about that as well, could you suggest some?



thx for all your answers

I recently shipped in $6,750 on a coin-flip where the pot odds were about 7:10 (that is, +EV). Busto. FML.
Does that help you feel better?

I don't feel better but I admire your BRM Management Bravery. Ok, this is probably a bit to sick, but maybe you could send me a little bit of it?

Dude. IMO stick to NHLE. PLO is crazy, with crazy variance. You basically shoving in your stack as a 5% favorite or a 5% dog.

What's your goal with poker?

Are you in it to make money? If so, then invest in yourself. Work extra hours, or a second job, or whatever, and generate a bankroll for games at which your winrate might translate into tangible income.

Just because you're a beginner doesn't mean you have to play the lowest stakes and then work your way up. The nosebleed stakes still get played with a 52 card deck, and deuces crack aces exactly as often as they do in the micro stakes.

That's one solution, but I would strongly recommend a different course of action.

Get help for gambling addiction.

Chasing losses by playing bigger, or playing more, is one of the hallmark signs of a problem gambler. Also, in a game where you have no substantial financial risk, you are experiencing emotional swings based on wins and losses. Also a sign of gambling addiction. It's not about the money, it's not about what stakes you play, you just want the feeling of winning.

Am I right? Would you be happy winning 3 buy-ins at PLO2 after just dropping 5 (for a net loss of 2)? Clearly you wouldn't. A win is not a win until its ++$$$ for you.

What the hell, how can $500 be a lot of money to anyone? Take 4BI shots at PLO50 with $500 IMO. Even with significant money in your acct, I still think the best strategy is to take shots at the bigger games when you find a particularly soft game.

How is feeling very bad about losing $15 bucks a sign of gambling addiction? Shouldn't it be the opposite? My friends and family usually express concern rather that I don't care that much even if I lose quite a significant amount. I bemoan my luck and forget about it 5 minutes later. Isn't that the sign of gambling addiction rather?

...

I meant that someone who gets upset about $15 doesn't strike me as someone at risk of gambling addiction. Obviously there is a difference in the behaviour of getting angry about $15 and then chasing losses, or perhaps getting angry and ragequitting poker for the day. I do the latter when I start feeling that I am not playing well, but honestly more often when losing than when winning due to those poor decisions. I just don't see how having an emotional response to losing/winning is in itself an indication of gambling addiction.

I asked a therapist once if she thought I was a gambling addict, and she told me no, gambling addicts are the kind of people who start prioritizing gambling over things like having food in the house.

That's a very glib definition.

There is a whole spectrum between abstinence and moderation. And another whole spectrum between moderation and addiction.

Your prioritization of gambling doesn't have to be tangible. You could prioritize gambling over other emotional needs as well.