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Old 04-19-2017, 12:29 PM   #1
CosmicCharlie
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A-C Game Analysis

I'm currently working my way through the Mental Game of Poker 2 and working on my A-C game analysis.This type of analysis can be used to determine the strengths and weakness in our poker game. Once we identify out biggest weaknesses we know exactly what needs the most work.

Here is my current A-C game profile:

A-Game
Mind is sharp and relaxed
Avoid marginal spots and make good decisions
Very patient and willing to wait for the right spot
“You must learn to allow patience and stillness to take over from anxiety and frantic play….The good player is patient. He is observant, controlling his patience, and organizing his play. When he sees an opportunity, he explodes”
Decision come easy. Not playing hands without a good reason. Not in spots where my decisions are tough
Time is endless

B-Game
Unaware of table image/oppenete image
Playing too many hands loose and passive
Trying to generate action. Fancy play syndrome
Distracted by table talk, Phone, TV & etc.

C-Game
Playing when tired & unprepared
Playing on autopilot and not thinking about the decisions I am making
Targeting opponents to get revenge on them
Trying to win every pot
No being patient enough and losing the perspective needed to be successful in the long run
Top aggressive and not thinking at all

If you have use this method please share your experience on how it has helped you improve your poker game. Also please share any information on how we can optimize this process.
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Old 04-25-2017, 04:51 AM   #2
JayKon
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Re: A-C Game Analysis

Having spent 30+ years doing analysis in computers and having analysis become second nature, I very much appreciate the way you're thinking. Only, what you've done is too detailed.

Each point is correct (and in the right category) and irrelevant.

Sometimes you can be sharp as a tack and still get sucked out on.
Sometimes you can be tired and still be a better player than the rest of the table.

What is comes down to is knowing the game well enough to be able to spot situations to profit from and spot situations to minimize losses.

In short, poker is not a games of cards played with people, it's a game of people played with cards.
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Old 04-25-2017, 05:36 AM   #3
walkby
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Re: A-C Game Analysis

I think there is a lot of room for "slippage" when you don't have a good idea of what to do in different spots. Getting that knowledge comes with experience, but being aware when you don't have it can be just as important as having it. That awareness allows you to remain focused on different plays and to learn which are appropriate and which will maximize profitability.
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Old 04-25-2017, 08:59 AM   #4
Elrazor
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Re: A-C Game Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCharlie View Post
I'm currently working my way through the Mental Game of Poker 2 and working on my A-C game analysis.This type of analysis can be used to determine the strengths and weakness in our poker game. Once we identify out biggest weaknesses we know exactly what needs the most work.

Here is my current A-C game profile:

A-Game
Mind is sharp and relaxed
Avoid marginal spots and make good decisions
Very patient and willing to wait for the right spot
“You must learn to allow patience and stillness to take over from anxiety and frantic play….The good player is patient. He is observant, controlling his patience, and organizing his play. When he sees an opportunity, he explodes”
Decision come easy. Not playing hands without a good reason. Not in spots where my decisions are tough
Time is endless

B-Game
Unaware of table image/oppenete image
Playing too many hands loose and passive
Trying to generate action. Fancy play syndrome
Distracted by table talk, Phone, TV & etc.
This really highlights what David Sklansky is talking about in the podcast related to this thread

In your circumstances, there is a huge discrepancy between your A-Game and B-Game. When I think back to when I played regularly, I would estimate I played my B-game 60% of the time - but my B-game was at least good enough to turn a small profit. I played my A-game maybe 30% and C-game <10% of the time.

As things stand, you are never going to make a profit playing poker with that B-game.

Going back to my original point about DS, he suggests the majority of players would garner a greater benefit by spending time studying poker than worrying about poker psychology. I think that's the case with your scenario. At least 2 of the points you raise about your B-game are just fishy plays that players with a strong theoretical understanding of poker do not make.

Distractions are an easy thing to solve - I always had table chat turned off, and if your phone of TV are distracting then turn them off too. A lack of self-awareness may also well be related to distractions.

In sum, MGOP has helped you highlight these issues, but don't mistake understanding and highlighting these issues as a magic wand for resolving them.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:04 AM   #5
CosmicCharlie
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Re: A-C Game Analysis

Thank you guys for your feedback. I agree with JayKon that my first analysis is a bit to detailed. I wrote the analysis in 2014 and now I'm coming back to it and working my way through MGOP again. As Walkby mentioned I believe that the greatest value of this framework is that in bring awareness to our strengthens and weakness. It directly shows us what we should be focused on improving.

Elrazor I also agree with your points. It is far more important to have strong technical fundamentals before moving into poker psychology. However working on the mental game can help you highlight some of the areas that you need to improve on.

Here is my second versions of my A-C game analysis. I plan on coming back to this more often and using this framework to continue improving my game. I hope to get better at my analysis as well. I think some of my points in the original post where to detailed, focused on negatives and maybe placed in the wrong category. My B game has gotten a lot stronger over the past two years and as Elzaro mentioned this is the game I find my self playing most often. Here is an updated versions of my analysis that I worked on yesterday.

A-Game
Mind is calm, sharp and relaxed
All decisions are made by following my decisions making process (Plan Your Hand)
I am very aware of my opponents and table dynamics
Intuition is really strong

B-Game
Making good strategic decisions
Slight distractions
Feeling myself getting irritated when a mistake is made
No cowboy ****, stick to the plan

C-Game
Slightly passive
Thoughts of forcing action
Being more reactive instead of making decisions using a process
Not as focused and a little tired
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Old 04-28-2017, 09:44 PM   #6
chrisshiherlis
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Re: A-C Game Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCharlie View Post
Thank you guys for your feedback. I agree with JayKon that my first analysis is a bit to detailed. I wrote the analysis in 2014 and now I'm coming back to it and working my way through MGOP again. As Walkby mentioned I believe that the greatest value of this framework is that in bring awareness to our strengthens and weakness. It directly shows us what we should be focused on improving.

Elrazor I also agree with your points. It is far more important to have strong technical fundamentals before moving into poker psychology. However working on the mental game can help you highlight some of the areas that you need to improve on.

Here is my second versions of my A-C game analysis. I plan on coming back to this more often and using this framework to continue improving my game. I hope to get better at my analysis as well. I think some of my points in the original post where to detailed, focused on negatives and maybe placed in the wrong category. My B game has gotten a lot stronger over the past two years and as Elzaro mentioned this is the game I find my self playing most often. Here is an updated versions of my analysis that I worked on yesterday.

A-Game
Mind is calm, sharp and relaxed
All decisions are made by following my decisions making process (Plan Your Hand)
I am very aware of my opponents and table dynamics
Intuition is really strong

B-Game
Making good strategic decisions
Slight distractions
Feeling myself getting irritated when a mistake is made
No cowboy ****, stick to the plan

C-Game
Slightly passive
Thoughts of forcing action
Being more reactive instead of making decisions using a process
Not as focused and a little tired
C game cannot include Conscious Thought.
Quote from Tendler: '"What you are left with is whatever skillset you have learned to the level of your unconscious, in other words, your C game."
https://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/w...layers-_57611/

C game is your worst (quoting again). Your worst is in your subconscious.Your A game is your best. It is conscious thinking and is limited to things that are new to you. (This is all from Tendler).

How does that sit with your delineation?
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Old 04-28-2017, 09:48 PM   #7
chrisshiherlis
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Re: A-C Game Analysis

[Mason enters, Stage Left, wielding axe]
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Old 04-29-2017, 06:35 AM   #8
Mason Malmuth
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Re: A-C Game Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisshiherlis View Post
[Mason enters, Stage Left, wielding axe]
Hi chrisshiherlis:

I couldn't resis your post. In our May Magazine, which should be up in a couple of days, I have a review of Tendler's first book. Here's a little teaser:

Quote:
To start this review, let’s first discuss an idea that appears early in the text. It’s “unconscious competence” which Tendler says on page 17:

Unconscious Competence is the Holy Grail of learning, and by far the most important concept in this book.

And in my opinion this is an incredibly silly statement.
Also, Tendler just did a an interview on Negreanu's podcast. One of the things both he and Negreanu agreed upon was that bankroll management is an important skill. It was hard to keep from laughing. (Okay, I know that some of you will be confused by this so I'll explain a little more. Knowing what size bankroll you need for a specific game to assure survival is an important idea. But that's basically the end of it, and notice that this is much different from a skill which contains a whole body of expertise that you must master.)

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 05-02-2017, 10:16 AM   #9
Aces123123
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Re: A-C Game Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Also, Tendler just did a an interview on Negreanu's podcast. One of the things both he and Negreanu agreed upon was that bankroll management is an important skill. It was hard to keep from laughing... Knowing what size bankroll you need for a specific game to assure survival is an important idea. But that's basically the end of it...
Countless players play in games way above their bankroll, or way below, for psychological reasons. So it is a skill to play within your bankroll, it isn't always enough to know proper bankroll management. You have to follow the guidlines too
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Old 05-02-2017, 07:23 PM   #10
Mason Malmuth
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Re: A-C Game Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces123123 View Post
Countless players play in games way above their bankroll, or way below, for psychological reasons. So it is a skill to play within your bankroll, it isn't always enough to know proper bankroll management. You have to follow the guidlines too
Hi Aces:

There's no skill involved. It's not like a game such as tennis or chess where there's lots of skill. Your required bankroll is a number, nothing more. If you play with a smaller amount of money than your bankroll number, expect to go broke at a higher probability than your required bankroll would indicate. And if you play with a larger amount of money than your required bankroll, it'll be almost impossible for you to go broke. This isn't skill, it;s just a fact.

So do you think paying Tendler hundreds of dollars to learn about your bankroll skill is worth anything? If you do, then you don't understand what it is.

Also, if you're someone who constantly plays above the required bankroll number to assure survival, expect to be broke in the future and now you won't have the money needed to pay a psychiatrist for the help that you really need.

Best wishes,
Masn
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