So how many stretches have you had where you've seen less quads than expected?

Well here in lies the problem that I think we are actually running into. No one can remember the times where quads were less than expected. Our foe "availability bias" keeps our human brains from being able to "remember" the hands it didn't take place in because it isn't memorable in any way.

As an example, we all know the player who says things like, "I always lose with Pocket Aces, and I always win with 72o". Why do they make these insane claims? Is their game rigged?

Nope. It just don't remember all of the hands they win with pocket Aces, because they are SUPPOSED to win with pocket Aces. And they don't remember all of the times they lose with 72o because they are SUPPOSED to lose with 72o.

So then what does their brain, which by the way is wired to notice the unexpected, end up noticing and remembering? The times where their belief structure is violated. I.E. the times when Aces lose and the times with 72o wins.

There are other reasons too that I think quads would "appear" to happen more often, but this post has already grown too long. So I will let it stop at this point.

All spot on.

I went through a downswing once where it seemed like my premium hands were all getting whacked to the point where my irrational brain wanted to go there. Doing some self analysis I started by looking at my profitability by starting hand to confirm how badly it had been... and what I found was my top 5 hands in terms of profitability during that time period were:

KK
AA
QQ
AKs
JJ

And they were all winning within expected normal parameters. Funny how that works.

Yes, that was my point.

i have been playing on global for about 3 months, and let me say i DO NOT think global poker is rigged,but in this short time playing here i have seen quads many more times than other sites i play. I am sure this will balance out over time.

Especially when you're wasting all your once in a lifetime run good on gold coin games :P

Has Global posted the certificate for the RNG anywhere? They claim it was certified by someone, but I haven't seen proof, nor do I know who certified it as random.

I would feel better if they released a RNG certification. It just adds legitimacy to the claim that something is random. Global Poker has gotten me back into the online poker after not playing since Black Friday. This naturally led me to look at other online venues such as ACR and ACR shares their RNG certification right on their website.

It should be posted on their site, no question. It was certified by iTech Labs http://itechlabs.com.au/projects-clients/ scroll down and you can see they are their clients. You can contact them and they will confirm that they certified the RNG, but Global has yet to post it on their site for some reason.

Exactly, I was using ACR as an example of a online poker room that is open and transparent about the RNG certification.

Does anyone even know what RNG certification means?
Who is qualified to certify one?

That is a very good question, and I have another.

Let's say Global has this RNG cert, and assume the company that certified them is legit. And qualified to say the RNG is working the way it should. Let's assume all of those facts.

Does the company that gives the certification come back and inspect that Global is actually using the same RNG they certified?

I don't think Global is doing this, so don't hear me say that, but what would stop Global from getting a RNG certified, and just putting into place the "crooked RNG" after the fact? Does the certification website test the RNG daily? I doubt it very much

Okay that is my first point, and again I don't for any reason think Global is doing this, more of a "What does the RNG cert really matter anyways" kind of question.

Second and related question, who cares?

Let's assume the RNG is BADLY flawed. Like first year programmers wouldn't make the mistakes this RNG has (and again, don't think this is true, just again asking the question does the RNG cert matter)

If the RNG is flawed, I am fine with it as long as it is always flawed. I.E., I get as many of the insane amount of quads hands that my competitor gets.

Maybe an example will really bring the point home.

Let's say you are familiar with a local "live" home game, full of all of the fish you want. But they don't like when someone gets straights, because they are crazy. Do you still play? HECK YEAH! You just adjust your strat.

You no longer care about connectors, and fold hands like 78 and J9 pre flop because you know much of the value of these hands comes from the value they obtain from hitting straights. But this "game" doesn't allow that. You place more emphasis on rank of cards, and obviously the value of pairs pre is also more.

But you play because the rules don't change for the whole game. Now you stay home if they say "Well you aren't allowed to make straights, but we are." Yeah no thanks, I am good, I will find a different game.

Now is a game where straights are not allowed badly flawed? Yes. Do you play when the fish turn out for it? Yes. As long as the game is badly flawed the same way the whole game, you play.

Which is my point with the RNG. Let's assume it is flawed but the fish are plentiful. You play!. Lets assume the RNG is perfect, the best ever created, but the games are full of world class top level pro, grinding it out at even the .02/.04 levels. Do you play? Nope.

Last point and then I will end this novel.

If Global was a rigged company, imo I don't think they would WANT to rig the game for big hands to be cracked. This means large pots trade hands and they earn rake, I get that. But what happens when people pile up a large amount of moeny? They withdraw. That is bad.

A smart crooked company would have more split pots than are normal. Think about it. They still get rake, and no one pulls their money because they have what they started with, minus the rake. Its why I have always thought a good sign of a company being legit would be no rake charged on split pots.

And to iterate once more, I don't think Global is doing any of these things, including my last point, I am simply proposing the question that it likely is totally irrelevant if the RNG works correctly or not.

Good points about the RNG.

For what it's worth I have seen quite a few quad hands run out the last couple of days over a few MTTs but the score is 1 for me, 1 for villain and 1 for someone when I wasn't in the pot so I'm OK with the consistency.

We used to always say in soccer and basketball "I don't care if the ref is bad just be consistently bad calling the game both ways"

They might be hiding the rigs behind a cover screen of consistent quads. A theory to consider for some people...

Phenomenal read, never thought of it with the way you presented it

More info on VP flaw?

Not really related to the thread, but this was a while after Will Hill joined the ipoker network promising huge bonuses. It was after the bonus whoring era (featuring beatable bonuses) had pretty much ended, but I still I looked over all the games to see if any were beatable. They had quite a few varieties of VP (most of which had house edges of 2-3%), and within the Jacks or Better games one variety (4 handed) had the full 9 6 payout, which has basically no house edge (though granted healthy variance). All the other varieties of the game (1 handed 2 handed 10 handed 25 handed etc) were 8 5 (which gives the house nearly a 3% edge). For those who do not know, 9 6 means 9x payout for a full house and 6x for a flush and 8/5 is 8 for the FH, 5 for the flush.

Most sites did not count VP toward bonus clearing (due to the lower edge of full payout games most offered), but Will Hill did, likely because every game except one obscure one gave them a 2-3% advantage. They offered a $1000-$5000 bonus each month with initially 25x clearing. With a 2-3% edge obviously this is pretty much not worth it, however with near 0 edge it certainly was.

This lasted for quite a while (a couple years), because I suspect not too many people discovered the mistake odds in this specific game. They tweaked the bonus a few times (think one time they limited it to 250 a day or something weird and another time increased wagering to 30x), but it had no real impact other than potentially making us play lower volume on more days, or a bit more no edge volume in general. They finally just removed VP from clearing bonuses well after we assumed they would do that.

Separate story, but as it semi-relates to this thread - if there ever is something that is as obvious as many in this thread claim then there is a way to exploit it, and people would exploit it. The only ones who can never seem to exploit it in these threads are the ones who claim to know exactly how it works and then complain about it. Go figure, they must hate money (if their beliefs were actually valid).

I'm just a passerby who only learned about Global Poker not long ago, and I don't play on there. I read the first five pages of this thread and the last two, so pardon me if this was addressed.

I think you're all overthinking how to prove (statistically, not definitively) whether the game is poker or if it is a predetermined sweepstakes. How often do you experience a chopped pot? eg. A8 vs A4 on a KKKTQ board. If the game is purely a sweepstakes with predetermined winners (however it's calculated before the hand or during the hand), then it really shouldn't predetermine a chopped pot.

New term for global is Quad mining.

Aw shucks, you are making me blush...

I am glad it was helpful to someone.

On the PLO side Global was on a str8 flush roll yesterday, there were several comments in chat about it....

Many banks caught on. It's why so many people are now required to have funds sitting in their paypal account in order to make gold coin purchases. I know for a fact two major banks deny VGW Holdings purchases. One is the ballpark for the Mets and the other is the ballpark for the Diamondbacks.

It's extremely easy to do chargebacks and disputes on VGW/Global. You aren't making a deposit on a Poker site. You are purchasing Gold coins which hold precisely zero value. VGW is then kind enough to give you free sweeps cash which also holds no value until you redeem them.

"Caught on"? That makes it sound like players or GP were doing something wrong, they're not. I would think GP would be upset about banks denying any purchases and think about fighting that. Maybe, possibly, some folks might be waiting to see how GP reacts to this even?, idk. I think GP should be upset about it because I believe I their business.

What is the point of all this drivel?

Yes it absolutely matters if the RNG works correctly or not. The reason is that fish/rigtards/losers actively look for whatever reason they can to pyschologically blame their losses on some factor external to them and their play. These people are already losing money on the site, they only need a small kick in the behind to take their money off once and for all and tell their friends it's a rigged site.

Or am I missing the point of what you're saying?

Just because they call it an arcade game and you purchase arcade tokens doesn't mean it's not gambling. Banks can make their own decisions and allow or deny whatever transactions they please. There is nothing for VGW/Global to fight. They are getting walked all over. Prior to them announcing they had a certified RNG Paypal disputes returned over $250,000 to players. That was two months ago. That number is certainly much higher now. VGW/Global did not even respond to the disputes because they can't exactly claim they lost money because the sweeps cash that actually holds value is given to players for free. You don't purchase sweeps cash. You purchase gold coins.

Just because you believe in their business doesn't mean they are on the up and up. They are threading the line of legality and several sweepstakes attorneys I talked to claim this is absolutely not a legal sweepstakes. They are not following the laws of each jurisdiction and are genuinely leaving themselves open from many different angles.

Go look on their facebook pages comments. I'd say about 80% of the people commenting on there are leaving negative feedback. Global is in the business of running a sweepstakes and selling arcade tokens. Not operating a poker site. You can purchase $20,000 worth of Gold Coins this week and lose the Sweeps Cash to a friend. Have them cash out their sweeps cash and get paid and then you dispute your arcade token purchases and there won't be a single hiccup in the process. Not one. Global is getting eaten alive and they don't have a clue on what to do about it.

When they get shut down your Sweeps Cash is worthless. Nobody will step in and issue refunds like with FTP/PS years back because you hold $0 USD with VGW Holdings. Keep what you plan on playing with and using and not a cent more. Now that they cover Paypal fees there is no reason to keep more on anyways.