Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > General Gambling > Probability

Notices

Probability Discussions of probability theory

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-10-2010, 12:30 AM   #1
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 49
The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

So I set out to find the actual odds of being involved in a commercial airliner crash on a per flight basis. I thought this would be easy to find. What I found was a whole lot of rhetoric about "your more likely to die on the way to the airport" and "you're safer up in the air than you are down here" type of answers, but I had a very hard time locating any actual numbers or statistics.

I kept searching

When I actually found the "statistics" that back these attitudes and expressions I was shocked at how flawed and purposely skewed these statistcs were. The "official" statistic that always seems to be thrown out there is this

1 in 11 million chance of being in a plane crash per person, per year.

And the way that they arrive at this number is just ridiculous. They divide the number of crashes in a year into the TOTAL POPULATION, and boom. 1 in 11 million. However, most people don't fly all that often, if at all. So that doesn't mean anything to someone who travels alot.

I concluded that there is millions and millions of dollars invested into making the average american feel safe on an airplane, and that these extremely flawed statistics that are put out there by supposedly "official" sources are pretty much propaganda, and I was determined to have my question answered.

What are the odds that MY specific flight crashes.

So I did some research and crunched the numbers and here is what I came up with:

average number of US commercial flights per year

divided by

average number of US commercial crashes per year

= odds of your specific flight crashing


SO

9,748,551(national airtraffic controllers association)

divided by

36.05(national transportation safety board)

= 1 in 270,417

1 in 270,417 that your flight goes down. And that's if your taking just one flight. If you take a round trip, it's 2 x 1/270,417. If you take a round trip with a connector flight each way, then it's 4 x 1/270,417.

SO

odds of being in a crash after
10 flights = 1 in 27,041
100 flights = 1 in 2,704
200 flights = 1 in 1,352

These don't sound nearly as appealing as that 1 in 11,000,000, do they?

Anyways I'm thinking of organizing all of this into an article, and the reason I posted this here is because I would like you math guys out there to "check my work" and see that my numbers are correct, or if you can add anything to my numbers or argument.
cmac0420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 12:51 AM   #2
adept
 
Chuppa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Why don't you come have a seat?
Posts: 1,073
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac0420 View Post
1 in 270,417 that your flight goes down. And that's if your taking just one flight. If you take a round trip, it's 2 x 1/270,417. If you take a round trip with a connector flight each way, then it's 4 x 1/270,417.
This isn't necessarily true. Longer flights are more likely to crash than shorter ones.
Chuppa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 01:00 AM   #3
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 49
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac0420
1 in 270,417 that your flight goes down. And that's if your taking just one flight. If you take a round trip, it's 2 x 1/270,417. If you take a round trip with a connector flight each way, then it's 4 x 1/270,417.

This isn't necessarily true. Longer flights are more likely to crash than shorter ones.
True, but the long flight crashes and short flight crashes are all included and accounted for, so it's all averaged out. also, I'm not sure about this, as it may be unfounded, but I have heard that flights are most likely to crash during takeoff/landing.
cmac0420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 01:18 AM   #4
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Sherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Psychology Department
Posts: 7,744
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

Well, technically you cannot just add them up. So for 2 flights you need to figure the probability of NOT crashing. Which is 270416/270417. Then take that number to the 2nd power. .999996^2. Then subtract that result from 1. 1 - .999993 = .00000739597.

For 10: .000369738
For 100: .036311108
For 200: .137546825

But I don't really know what to make of this. What year's did you include in your calculation of the average? It might be better to know the number of flights and crashes for each year separately.
Sherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 01:54 AM   #5
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 49
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

Quote:
What year's did you include in your calculation of the average? It might be better to know the number of flights and crashes for each year separately.
1989-2009

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/Table5.htm
cmac0420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 02:44 AM   #6
old hand
 
DMMx69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: This Mortal Coil
Posts: 1,634
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

As Sherman noted, your math is wrong.

The formula should be:

(1-x)^y = chance of no crash
where x is the chance of crashing (1/270417), and y is the number of trials (flights).

Here is what I get:

assuming 1 in 270,417 is right

1 flight: 99.99963% no crash
Roundtrip = 99.99926% no crash
roundtrip with connector (4 flights) = 99.99852% no crash
10 flights = 99.99630% no crash
100 flights = 99.96303% no crash
200 flights = 99.92607% no crash
6000 flights = 97.80563% no crash
187438 flights = 50.00008% no crash

So, don't ever take a 187,439th flight. You are sure to die.

Last edited by DMMx69; 03-10-2010 at 03:06 AM.
DMMx69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 02:55 AM   #7
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Sherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Psychology Department
Posts: 7,744
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMMx69 View Post
As Sherman noted, your math is wrong.

The formula should be:

(1-x)^y = chance of no crash
where x is the chance of crashing (1/270417), and y is the number of trials (flights).

Here is what I get:

assuming 1 in 270,417 is right

1 flight: 99.99963% no crash
Roundtrip = 99.99926% no crash
roundtrip with connector (4 flights) = 99.99852% no crash
10 flights = 99.99630% no crash
100 flights = 99.96303% no crash
200 flights = 99.92607% no crash
6000 flights = 97.80563% no crash
187438 flights = 50.00008% no crash
Yes. This is right. Something didn't quite feel right about mine. I should have kept going and I would have found the mistake. For 200 I took 1-(270,217/270417^200), instead of 1-(270416/270417^200). Good catch.
Sherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 03:06 AM   #8
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 49
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

Quote:
1 flight: 99.99963% no crash
Roundtrip = 99.99926% no crash
roundtrip with connector (4 flights) = 99.99852% no crash
10 flights = 99.99630% no crash
100 flights = 99.96303% no crash
200 flights = 99.92607% no crash
6000 flights = 97.80563% no crash
187438 flights = 50.00008% no crash
can you express these as ratios?
cmac0420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 03:08 AM   #9
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Sherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Psychology Department
Posts: 7,744
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

Here is a hastily drawn graph of the function for variously selected numbers of flights. You would need close to 1M to have a 95% chance of being in a crash...which is nice I suppose.

Sherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 07:33 AM   #10
Pooh-Bah
 
Didace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,738
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac0420 View Post
So I set out to find the actual odds of being involved in a commercial airliner crash on a per flight basis.
The data you used is for "accidents" not "crashes". The number of fatal crashes is far lower than 36 per year. I have a hard time believing that most crashes have no fatalities.

I would be interested in knowing what is included in "accidents".
Didace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 10:03 AM   #11
adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,013
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac0420 View Post
36.05(national transportation safety board)
Most of these are private planes, many of which don't have professional pilots. Seems like you should only restrict to commercial flights on decent sized planes.
wamplerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 10:47 AM   #12
Accepting mocking
 
plaaynde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Local Group
Posts: 9,437
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

Remember that all donīt die in every "crash". Have you taken that into account?
plaaynde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 11:21 AM   #13
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Sherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Psychology Department
Posts: 7,744
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

Yes, there is a difference between being in a crash and dying. I sort of assumed the OP meant being in a crash and dying. Clearly he just meant being in an "accident" which is unlikely to just include crashes. It probably includes two planes bumping into one another while taxiing or something.

In any case, here are two graphs with the Fatality data.



As the first graph makes clear, the probability of being in a fatal plane accident (fatal accidents per departure), has been on a decline since 1989. This suggests that simply averaging the results from 1989-present is a mistake. However, for simplicity I did it anyway (p = .000000637) and plotted the probability of being in a fatal accident as a function of the number of flights taken. So even after 1M flights, you would only have a 30% chance of being in a fatal plane accident.
Sherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 12:22 PM   #14
Accepting mocking
 
plaaynde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Local Group
Posts: 9,437
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

What are the odds for an average flight pilot to be in a accident during his career (respectively to "not be among us anymore" due to a flight accident)?
plaaynde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 02:14 PM   #15
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 49
Re: The REAL odds of being in a plane crash

Quote:
The data you used is for "accidents" not "crashes". The number of fatal crashes is far lower than 36 per year. I have a hard time believing that most crashes have no fatalities.

I would be interested in knowing what is included in "accidents".
Quote:
Remember that all donīt die in every "crash". Have you taken that into account?
Yes, I included non-fatal crashes on purpose. See that was one of my problems with the 1 in 11 million statistic. It was 1 in 11 million that you would "die" in a plane crash. In other words if you're in a crash and end up paralized from the neck down from it, they don't even count you. Like that plane that crash landed in the hudson river a couple weeks ago is not counted. I don't know about you, but the thought of any plane crash is pretty terrifying, and deserves to be counted. I wasn't interested in odds of dying. I was interested in odds of being in a plane crash.

Quote:
Most of these are private planes, many of which don't have professional pilots. Seems like you should only restrict to commercial flights on decent sized planes.
Wrong. These statistics are restricted ONLY to major U.S. commercial airliners. If you were to include private planes, the number would be much, much higher.
cmac0420 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright Đ 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive