lol so you say the percentages of your losses *prove* online poker is rigged, yet you've done no analysis...sounds like wishful thinking to me

but hey everyone on 2p2 with 200-900 posts is singled out for the doomswitch by ps i meant it's totally ldo AMIRITE?

So it didn't happen. Got it.

Seriously, I am deeply sorry that you cannot beat the $1 tournaments you play in and the emotional turmoil it has had on your life.

Actually I am not, being the supreuser I am it is all part of the global conspiracy to keep guys like you from proving your case with actual data. All of my responses are tailored for you to claim to have data but not show it because that way we get guys like you to keep the secret for us.

Muhahahaha!

Then again, maybe you are a plant all along just playing the role to discourage others who have data from coming forward. Hmm, the plot thickens...

Remember, everyone is watching you all the time because your $5 matters that much to the world.

One last note. Use better made up data in future. Your stuff would have been caught within a minute if true. At least make a minor effort to pretend you have data that would not take 10 seconds with any database program to show is false. It's not asking for much and it is the least a paranoid, angry riggedologist like you can do for his cause.

All the best.

So last night i was playing and sat out saying how the cards are rigged because like most nights the bad beats with the miracle cards on the river etc..Anyway i'm saying this the whole game just watching and when i get down to 1,000 chips i join the game at first being pushed around (by players who have doubled or even tripled up by putting some bad beat on someone or through a donk), but finally i won a hand and then another and another until i was heads up. Now i win a couple of well played hands if i don't say so myself and now have all but like 2,000 chips. The last hand i have k3 suited and they had qq. No preflop raise the flop came like 592 and they go all in. I started typing something like "go ahead and in mid sentence ahh hell with it" then call. I get a king on the turn and win the hand. You know what they said? "You cheat". They really believed i manipulated the cards when it wasn't me at all lol. Guess i have software, but yeah after sitting out and saying how the game is rigged and then i win they had the nerve to call me a cheat lol.

Oh yeah my pocket aces finally won after being busted like 13 times straight. Also finally started flopping trips (like everyone else consistently does everytime they have them and win) but yeah like most times i have the hand some runner runner **** happens. Set ups are what i call them. So yeah i just started folding my pockets and yes i was right to do so.

Oh well it's all good. I learned how to survive and come out ahead in rigged games that are full of donkies who get the miracle cards repeatedly on the river so i guess i am a genious haha.

^since it sounds like you luckboxed your way through the tourney, one might think that maybe, just maybe, you're seeing a heater finally...gl when it ends lol

they lose 20% to 30% of the time. that's why they're 70% to 80% hands.

First I had a upswing which is why I was up 25K and that I ran normal and lost it all back. Nothing rigged or anything, I just played bad.
And the buy ins were not that low, average buy in was like 100$ and I lost it slowly overlike 10000 Sngs. I also didn't care because I was still winning if you include rakeback

Oh and It goes up after that because I finally figured out what I was doing wrong

Poker Stars $6.00+$0.60 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

KRZESLOWSKI (CO): t1500 M = 50
illyano3 (BTN): t900 M = 30
DrSimanco (SB): t1480 M = 49.33
arseender (BB): t2120 M = 70.67
Zac HAC (UTG): t1500 M = 50
Hero (MP): t1500 M = 50

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is MP with K K
Zac HAC calls t20, Hero raises to t80, KRZESLOWSKI raises to t1500 all in, 4 folds, Hero calls t1420 all in

Flop: (t3050) 9 A 2 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: (t3050) 5 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t3050) 5 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: t3050
KRZESLOWSKI shows A 9 (two pair, Aces and Nines)
Hero shows K K (two pair, Kings and Fives)
KRZESLOWSKI wins t3050

Then how do mine lose 80-90% of the time?

I just played 3 tourneys on FT. Each one I went deep and bubbled by losing the following hands.

10s lose to 55s
AQo loses to AJo
A10o loses to A3o

This is a regular occurence and happens all the time. I can call the rivers and flops with accuracy knowing how they are going to crush me. It has nothing to do with how many hands I am seeing, nothing to do with variance. It's a website manipulating the outcome. Everyone can see it and nobody can do anything about it because the servers are guarded and the sites operate unregulated.

Quit playing. Either you are terrible @ poker and are losing, or the game is rigged against you and you are losing. Either way, you are losing. The only logically thing to do it quit. Somehow, I think you won't.

Sherman

you think we're pretty silly because we refuse to acknowledge online poker just *might* be rigged. you are right, we don't know for *sure* so it's something we should consider.

however, you must also consider:
-you're a terrible poker player
-you only remember hands where you lose
-you can't see your opponents cards when they fold so you're probably ahead a lot and they just fold because you can't plan hands, betsize, or vary your ranges
-you're going through a mathematical inevitability that sucks
-your brain prevents you from acknowledging these things because they're painful

now, the chance of online poker being rigged is rather slim in my opinion, because the hands *do* fall within their expect EV. the rigged arguments are all fallacy ridden and pretty much represent total nonsense.

however, the chance of you sucking and denying it is rather high. that's why poker exists and why people can win. i mean seriously just look at bandichime.

if you could snap your fingers and make all poker unrigged for sure, there would still be as many losers, including you, and ya'll would just keep bitching.

also the hands you posted are nothing. wait until you're crushed by beats for months on end and lose most of your roll and you have no control over any of it. that sucks, but other people get work harder, get better, and win. people like you just keep losing.

like sherman said, gtfo of online poker if you think it's rigged. wtf why would you play online thinking the cards are stacked against you? even if you think your arguments against online poker are 'logical' or within the 'realms of reason,' you might consider you're probably one of the stupidest people ever for continuing to play -EV and give money away. and even if you accept this and play for some strange reason, WHY WOULD U BITCH ABOUT GETTING BAD BEATS IF YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY KNOWING YOU WILL GET THEM.

Well first off lets just agree that we are all poker players here. Then lets agree we play the odds. Well the number of posters that say PS is rigged compared to those that say it isn't well i have to go with the odds and say it is.

Also someone posted that we are assigned a winning or losing percent when signing in and others say BS. Yes i am bored kicking your donkey asses and am very sure they are correct and to keep myself from going crazy i always visit fulltilt and play the same way and of course win or atleast place when i can't make a hand no matter what i play at PS, but of course i play exactly the same way. The miracles always stop and i make trips when holding a pocket pair or fill a straight when i flop a gut shot etc...The huge hands being made at PS is insane compared to live play.

I agree with the ones who say its rigged 1) because of the odds and 2 )because until i said it was rigged i always placed. I can sit out and call cards like you wouldn't believe (runner runner, 4th suited card on river, or a straight card) it's a joke. I mean i don't know about you but the only hands i'm worried about is a straight, 3 of a kind, or maybe a better two pair cause well the rest are obvious and i don't play the **** you do.

Yes i still play poker stars and am still able to win even in if i have to sit on the side lines, but hey they have to bring in fresh meat and let them win so when they invest we can eat i guess.

So you 3 or 4 PS minions who know for sure it's legit, maybe you should go with the odds, or maybe you don't have too which makes it all to clear hmmmm.

Oh **** i almost forgot. For those who say why would they risk it? Lol i feel sorry for you. Read a paper and see how many people who are law abiding types who seem to have it all screw it all up hooking up with a minor, or getting kick backs or even kill for that almighty dollar. Human nature/animal insticts come to mind. Trust me if i could if it made me content i would rob you blind. Think about it before you say why would they, because **** if i could get away with it i would kill just for fun. Just my animal like instinct.

P.s. No idea why i quoted you and i am not a troll lol. Just stating whatever the **** i know to be the truth.

Well fwiw I've always kind of thought you were a troll, but I just can't stop my self from responding lol.

It is ridiculous to compare odds based on probability and a poll of worthless opinions. There is no connection between them and I'm pretty sure you know that.

Okay, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but this isn't evidence of anything. Obviously the hands on PS are insane compared to live play. Not only do you see thousands of more hands an hour, but online players tend to overplay pretty cards and chase hands without rhyme or reason.

lol, you don't have odds proving it's rigged. dfgh555, if you can really predict the cards, you should record yourself playing and predicting what will happen. I mean that's the responsible thing to do, right? If PS really is a rigged website and you can show people, you should.

I don't play on PokerStars.

I actually agree with this point to a certain extent. The argument of 'why would they risk it' is not evidence of anything. By that same measure however, all of your previous arguments are rendered worthless. You can't have you cake and eat it too.

Everyone hear claims they *know* the truth. It's like listening to a bunch of atheists and Christians argue about God. Come up with solid arguments and HARD evidence, and maybe you'll get some respect. Until then, keep playing those rigged microstakes.

Well i agree about the online players tending to overplay pretty cards and chase hands without rhyme or reason, but i was talking about the number of huge hands made on the flop and the miracles on the river. My opinion is it is to induce betting, making bigger pots, which make bigger rakes, and also to get the tournament over quicker so everyone signs up for another. I mean i watch lots of live play and never see the huge hands i see in in a matter of a half hour or so. I mean i flopped 3 flushes in a matter of 15 minutes and the number of full houses flopped are insane.

To tell you truth i of course don't know it is rigged and am really sorry i searched and found all the forums and people who say it is, but because they all seem to see the same things i do i can't help but consider it might be. It has just made me even more worried and hasn't helped my game much. Just afraid that whatever i play it is now less in my control of how the hand is going to play out which sucks. The expression "paranoia self destroyer" comes to mind.

My biggest worry is the posibility that maybe they do assign a winning/losing percentage when signing in. Like i said in a previous post until i started saying it was rigged i was winning for years every session and yes every session.

How is it that i can't flop trips, but every other player makes them everytime? How do i flop a gut shot 75% of the time wether i folded crap or play say 910 and never and i mean never fill it? How is it that my pocket aces always get beat? The last 15 times busted yet they hold for everyone else. Here is a great example: I have pocket aces and raise preflop to 300 and get one caller. The flop was rainbow with nothing to worry me i make a 400 raise got called, turn nothing so all in i go and the river makes him a straight. Now yeah it does happen no doubt, but everytime no matter if i push, slow play etc. I might add that the very next hand i got pocket qqs and go all in with my last 300 chips and guess what? Beat by pocket aces. So sic. It isn't luck or a slump, or my play so i am confused. Oh well lifes to short to keep bitching. I don't lose enough and still enjoy playing so it's all good.

Just got to say that it is so funny when i'm more likely to flop a flush then make trips or to win with my pocket aces.

Oh yeah if you don't play at PS...umm how come you are so adament defending it? Just a thought.

Today I flopped quads against top full house, three top sets, turned six or seven inside straights, made a couple nuts flushes, and won 100% of my flips. The three weeks before this I went on a 10 buy-in downswing where my biggest losing hands were AA, KK, QQ, and AK. I repeat, my biggest losing hands were AA, KK, QQ, and AK. My biggest losing positions were from the HJ, CO, and BTN. Pretty insane ****, and I was playing 10/8, nothing imaginative or swingy. Yes, it all seems very strange *when* it's happening, but if you actually go back over all your hands with tracking software and look at your EV graphs it becomes apparent that: a) crazy **** happens in poker, and b) it really all does even out. Your memory or perception of the moment is a terrible tool to measure how hands are playing, and is not evidence of anything. I don't know how much you play live, but crazy **** happens there, too. Like I said before, people are playing hundreds of thousands of hands online, where as it's hard to get in a 1k hand live session.

Ha, nothing to be sorry about. Most people complain about poker being rigged because most players are losers and refuse to admit it. Poker is grueling, brutal, unpredictable game, and the majority of players can't face they fact they just don't measure up. If you believe online poker is rigged and creating a -EV situation, stop playing. If you believe online poker is still rigged but +EV then keep playing and don't worry about it.

This makes almost no sense. If they were actually rigging accounts I'm pretty sure they'd measure the potential profit based on player's habits, not random percentages.

Gut shots are very hard to fill and you shouldn't be trying to fill them. I've had Aces busted for what *feels* like a ridiculous amount of hands. It happens to everyone.

Your recounting of the hand suggests to me you might not be as solid as you believe. You neglected to mention anything about your opponent, your position, whether you were playing cash/MTTs/SNGs, the stack sizes, and the texture of the board. I fold Aces on the turn routinely at 25nl, **** happens.

I'm not adamant at defending them, I'm simply deconstructing the logic behind "PS is rigged."

Regardless of your memorable hands, you should check out studies/posts about PS random distribution and long-term hand EV. I'm pretty sure people have looked at millions of hands and found things to be okay.

Bigger pots do not make bigger rake (at least in NL). Rake is capped, and more rake is earned by the site from many small pots than from fewer big pots. And at higher stakes games, pot size is irrelevant to rake entirely.

Well first off lets get one thing straight (no pun intended, damn i'm funny)! When you use stuff like HJ, CO, EV, and BTN i have no idea what that means lol.

So okay i watched two hours of the 2009 WSOP last night, and i got to say that yeah there were a lot of the same things i saw on PS happening on this particular night, more then i noticed in a previous post about what i saw over a 5 hour marathon over the weekend. Pocket aces got busted almost always, Dannomon flopped the full house, Hellmuth flopped 2 straights, river cards sucking out, etc. So it's all good. Guess it has been quite awhile since i watched closely and noted these things.

Here is a hand i played that i thought was well played..

I flopped the straight holding 9c10s. Three clubs on the board and i checked. Pocket AA bets 100 and gets several callers so i check raised (very tempted to push) and pocket AA calls along with a 3rd player and the rest fold. Turn is a blank and i bet 200 and they both call. River of course is a 4th club and i bet 200 wanting where i'm at. Player 3 reraises 100, and AA reraises another 200 and i folded. Player3 bluffing, and AA wins with a flush. Anyway i guess it wasnt so much the fold, but the way i played it i liked it and didn't go broke. Also got AA twice and actually won both times slow playing them so it's all good.

Another quick story. I told a dude heads up (everyone else folded) 2nd hand of the game, on the turn "you must have A4 nice hand" and folded. He shows and i again say "nice hand". You know what he said? "Shut up duche". Someone says "now that's funny" and i'm like "no this is funny" and got his chat banned all the while he made a huge preflop call with Q4 and lost too AQ. Yeah now that was funny.

Anyway i'm cool with poker stars. Not rigged.

Can we play heads up for your bankroll ? I know I will lose but I like how you played your strait when you flopped it inviting other players to stay in and luckbox you with a flush. I know I'll lose my bankroll to you but it will be worth years of experience for me please PM so we can set this up.

Lol i sense sarcasm, but there were 3 clubs on the board, and i was 75%sure the 4th club would find the turn as soon as i pushed (my sixth sense) said so. Also if you read a few of my post you would know how i have been just a little paranoid. Hell 4 suited cards finding the board is the norm at PS, and i was just playing safe betting enough in case that 4th club didn't hit i would still make a decent pot and if it did i wouldn't be out of the tournament. It felt like a set up from the beginning. Did i mention a took 2nd. I take it you would of pushed then?

lol saw the same thing happen to Phil H. last night the first one he flopped the guy beside him made a huge play (bluff) at the pot after the flop (4000) so Phil went all in and won. This was day 1.

2nd time he flopped it the hand ended just like the one i was talking about and he lost. Every table is different so i don't feel i let anyone catch a flush and am sure the pocket AA's with the club was gonna call if i pushed.

today, within 10 min

Poker Stars $6.00+$0.60 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t75/t150 Blinds - 3 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

dietrich101 (BB): t1930 M = 8.58
Quantum666 (BTN): t1850 M = 8.22
Hero (SB): t5220 M = 23.20

Pre Flop: (t225) Hero is SB with J J
1 fold, Hero raises to t450, dietrich101 raises to t1930 all in, Hero calls t1480

Flop: (t3860) 8 6 5 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: (t3860) 3 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t3860) K (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: t3860
dietrich101 shows K T (a pair of Kings)
Hero shows J J (a pair of Jacks)
dietrich101 wins t3860





Poker Stars $6.00+$0.60 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 3 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

dietrich101 (BB): t2360 M = 7.87
Quantum666 (BTN): t3450 M = 11.50
Hero (SB): t3190 M = 10.63

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is SB with Q Q
1 fold, Hero raises to t600, dietrich101 raises to t2360 all in, Hero calls t1760

Flop: (t4720) 6 K 6 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: (t4720) 9 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t4720) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: t4720
dietrich101 shows 6 6 (four of a kind, Sixes)
Hero shows Q Q (two pair, Queens and Sixes)
dietrich101 wins t4720



biggest LOL ever

Poker Stars $6.00+$0.60 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Havana72 (SB): t1460 M = 32.44
Hero (BB): t1325 M = 29.44
betuva (CO): t2675 M = 59.44
Ansvarlig (BTN): t3540 M = 78.67

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BB with A Q
betuva calls t30, Ansvarlig calls t30, Havana72 calls t15, Hero raises to t120, betuva calls t90, Ansvarlig calls t90, 1 fold

Flop: (t390) Q 7 2 (3 players)
Hero checks, betuva bets t270, Ansvarlig raises to t870, Hero raises to t1205 all in, betuva folds, Ansvarlig calls t335

Turn: (t3070) 9 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t3070) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: t3070
Hero shows A Q (a pair of Queens)
Ansvarlig shows 6 5 (a straight, Five to Nine)
Ansvarlig wins t3070

Well that sounds about right. My strategy at PS is just to limp in, and just call a raise, because well you know you are going to get reraised if you lead out, and my experience has shown me that the best hand normally loses at PS with all the players who just hope to get lucky. Anyway it works very well for me, because i am alright at out playing people after the flop. If i don't like the flop i can always fold without losing a lot of chips too.

Here is a donk play that beats your examples hands down.

3 players left and I'm in the big blind. The button calls as does the small blind.
I raise to 600 (3 times the big blind) with pocket tens and the button calls and the small blind folds. Flop 6 A10! I go all in and she calls. Turn 8 river 9! You know what she shows? J 3! That's what i call a donk.

One more.

3 players: I raise 400 (4x the BB ) on the button. Get 2 callers. Board 574 Player3 raises 300, and we call. Turn 8 Small blind goes all in with his last 725 and player1 calls. I type "62 off huh" and fold. River9!

LOL HE TURNS OVER 62! FREAKING IDIOTS DON'T GIVE UP THEIR BLINDS LOL. IT'S LIKE THERE BOTS OR SOMETHING

BUTTON-78
SMALL BLIND-62
PLAYER3-75

So you know, you sound pretty much like a very standard riggedologist. Tiny stakes, selective memory, flawed approach to the game, bad beat whiner, paranoid, not overly bright etc.

You mentioned earlier in the thread how so many people think it is rigged, but if you back up a bit and expand the search what you will see is that they are all concentrated in the massive rigged thread and some in the tiny stakes area. Nearly all demonstrate pretty much the same approach to the game as you and play at the same stakes as you do.

Look through all of the strategy forums for mid and higher level stakes, whether it be cash games or tournaments, and you will pretty much never see rigged concepts even being discussed as an option.

Now back up again a bit and think about the type of players (in terms of stakes and winning) that talk and whine about rigged software compared to those who never give it a thought.

Now back up a bit more and decide which group you eventually want to be a part of.

All the best.

How am i whinning? If you don't agree with me that neither of those 2 examples i gave should have been in either of the hands then i guess i will put you in the same group as them that being a donkey since you want to put me in a group. I was just showing a couple hands nothing more.

If you read my posts you will see why i was just curious if it were possible it could be rigged and found this thread which by the way most here do, but i pretty much came to the conclusion that like the old argument about Gods existense i don't know. You will also see that i win more then i lose so all your insults mean nothing.

Oh and is there really a strategy lol? The bluff strategy? The only strategy a high stakes player has is just that. Bet, bet, bet, bet with squat when he misses the flop! Poker is a simple game with no strategy needed geez. Luck is nice tho. I don't know the odds like some of you on each hand or after the flop, (which i think are ridiculous because to use odds you really have to no what the other player has) but not all the pros play odds either. I am good at reading players and a great gut instinct and that's fine with me.

Good luck to you.

You posted hands (likely in freerolls or micro stakes) where bad or new players playing badly (as happens at those stakes) got lucky. You may have went LOL a lot, but it is a very rudimentary form of whining. You are telling a bad beat story (which is a whine essentially), and a rather boring routine one at that.



Feel free to post the full hand history (unconverted) so we can see the user names and the buy ins. Then we can see that all you are doing is showing standard routine hands at tiny limits where most players do not care about the results or do not know how to play.

The group I am putting you in is the standard rigged believer group - tiny stakes, a whiner, and no ability to understand the context of the situation he is in. You look for hidden reasons when all that is work is relatively bad play at tiny stakes.

Not the same. One can be proven via math and statistical analysis, one can not. The fact you cannot grasp how to analyze your hands beyond a bad beat story is your limitation.

As I said in my previous post, you will never see rigged or bad beat whining in the forums that discuss strategy above the freerolls and micro stakes you play. They do not have the same "Gods existense" issue like you when it does not actually apply.

Maybe you win at the levels you play as the quality of play is utterly horrid. Feel free to share your screen name so we can see your power at the tables.


There is a chance you are not quite the master at the game as you think you may be.

Yeah, a very good chance...


Lots believe that about themselves. Few who actually make the effort to say it about themselves are rarely accurate.

Anyway, have fun.