You are likely right about most people who believe that Poker Stars' shuffling is not random. They would believe that PS was engaging in an Enron type conspiracy with the auditors.

Still, if PS wants to claim that it has proved that its shuffling is fair and random beyond a reasonable doubt, then it must publish the true hand history data. Also, government officials would trust such data. Maybe the French and Italian governments didn't require the data, but the US government will; if it ever licenses online poker.

I would like to start by stating that nothing I say here is meant to be offensive to anyone, and if it is, I apologize in advance.

I strongly believe that most people here have alternative motives to defend Pstars and or other online sites when they are called into question. This is natural for any business to have damage control in place for just these things.

With that aside, there are several reasons why it would benefit Pstars to purposefully rig certain types of games, especially low buy in tourneys. I will not go into them all. I am sure they have all been brought up here already, and discounted by various people for multiple reasons.

Several entities are very concerned with this and have started to look into Pstars and other sites also. I personally am looking into the way the cards fall on Pstars for an article I plan to write. The particular entity I am writing the article for wants me to have an pool of 100,000 hands for a fair analysis. I am only at 26,321 as I write here but even now the odds are so skewed from an individual standpoint it is drastically amazing.

Now, this is only in low buy in, ( $1-$10 ) tourneys. But just as a small example, just recently I was in a 3.30 NLHE and played 273 hands. In that many hands 3 times I lost with a FH to a better FH, 1 time I lost with a straight flush to a better straight flush. And it was not a 4 up, it was 3 cards on the table. 7 times I lost with top pair higher kicker and opponent had top pair lower kicker that paired on the river. ( Which as a side alone is incredibly low odds that would happen that many times in a single tourney of only 273 hands total). 6 times I had high PP's ( J or higher) all in and lost to odd hands at 75%/25% minimum favor preflop.

There is a lot more, but the overall on 25,000 hands especially in show downs is in the area of statistically impossible in terms of pot odds specifically.

Oh, and please do not state the ridiculous argument that it is because of the incredible amount of hands being played simultaneously. You could have 10 billion hands going at once and the pot odds concerning each table and/or person remain the same.

I am lucky in that I do not have to use my own money to play for the article. And I have nothing to gain by what anyone believes or does not believe. So if you want to play, play. But do not think that everything is as it should be, something odd is indeed going on, even if I do not know what it is specifically. But, I would say if your using your own money, and want real odds, go to a casino.

I was thinking bad level attempt until I read this nonsense non sequitur, and then I was sure.

Really? Your going to use classic old term Latin phrases inappropriately to try to demean my post? That is pretty funny in and of itself. I am amazed at the general lack of proper nomenclature concerning the English language on forums these days. But I digress sir, you must be right. What could I possibly know?

OK, good.

If you're saying that I, and other posters here are shilling for pokerstars, this makes you an *******.

Publish your article, and we'll talk.

P.S. What could this possibly even mean? "In terms of pot odds"? Pot odds are the odds a player gets to call a bet, what precisely would be statistcally impossible in this sense?

In that, regardless of the favor of those odds they do not statistically pan out even remotely close to what they should for the calling player. Which fits in with the low level tourney theme that seems to play out quite a bit in that cards seem to play heavily to get people to stay in hands. But very rarely do the odds pan out even close to reality when the player plays properly. And as for when I publish, trust that I hope all goes well and it does indeed.

P.S. I also want to state that I have only seen this in low level tourneys. The cash games I have played, ( not nearly as many ) seem to play MUCH closer to actual odds.

P.S.S. I am not saying that YOU, or anyone in particular for that matter are here to defend them. I am merely stating that it is a fact that Pstars and other sites do indeed put damage control in place on forums to defend them by any means.

Specifically, what do you mean? that a player who calls without the proper pot odds wins more than he should? The sentence you wrote above is about the least clear claim of cheating/riggedness I've ever heard.

In short, from what I have seen the cards play out to show very good pot odds to players, when the players properly call these bets the percentage of times they win are lower than they are in the real world. Once again this is just in low buy in tourneys and this is just one example where real world odds do not compare at all to Pstars.

The cards do not "show good pot odds to players", this statement doesn't make sense. The player who bets gives good pot odds (or doesn't, as the case may be)

So you're saying that a person who calls with correct odds, doesn't win often enough?

What is the "any means" that you refer to here?

I am quite aware of what you are trying to do. But please realize I am not an child nor an idiot and will not be tripped so easily. Now on the off chance you are not aware of this, pot odds are often compared to the probability of winning a hand with a future card in order to estimate the call's expected value. Now, knowing this, please reread my previous posts and I am sure it will make a bit more sense.

Josem, I only meant that these people will argue, belittle, demean, or whatever else they can do, to take any value from what people have to say in regards to Pstars possibly being rigged.

I was just in a PL Omaha tourney, I had Ad, Kd, Qh, 8h, flop was Ah, Ac, 2c. Was heads up, bet pot. Was called, turn was 8d. Bet pot, caller pushed all in. I called. Opponent had, As, 9d, 5c, 3s. Now I am sure the experts here can state the exact percentage I was to win at this point. But never fear, the river is here. 9c............

Of course this kind of thing happens, the problem is it happens a lot in Pstars to a vast majority of people. Have you ever looked at the winners of the low level tourneys? There is a few themes going on there believe it or not. Look beyond their names and you will see it too.

Seriously. Just publish your article and provide the link here. Until then, no one cares.