This thread is like a piece of spinach stuck on someone's tooth that I can't stop looking at even though I find it repulsive.

I'm a big winner at my home games, but everytime I play online I lose. I swear it's gotta be rigged. Whenever I go all-in preflop they have big pairs or AK every friggin time! How can that be possible!?!?

Well, everybody knows that RNG (Random Number Generator) witch sites are using to shuffle cards its not that trully random ass in live poker is. Simply because its just a code writing by human and it goes from step A to step B devided in many different parts. Please take a look a comment.

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minus200DELETETHIS :

a number of years ago The American Contract Bridge League (ACBL) started using computer dealt hands. Many of us were concerned with the high number of "wild" hands. The ACBL said for several years that these were just random hands. People with many years experience at the game doubted the claim. After several years it was released that the deals were indeed random but a program was used to "select" the more "interesting" hands to be used in tournament play.

The program for selecting these hands is rather simple according to the man the wrote it and the "random number generator" that dealt the hands. Even with little programing knowledge, I can tell you a program that selects certain "types" of poker hands is FAR easier to write than a program that selects certain "types" of bridge hands. Any reasonable programmer could write a program that selects certain hands and discards the others or even a % of the hands could be edited with no difficulty.


I do not mean to imply that I have any knowledge that poker sites are doing this. I can say with certainty that if they chose to do it that is not a hard task. You could select "action" hands or even hands that allowed the 2nd best hand to win what ever % you choose. The computer geeks he will know and the rest may suspect that it is possible but damned few know if it is being done.
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I personaly doubt if the profitable players are too a consistenly winnig players on the site in cashgames. For most pots in middle+ stakes are more likely a coinflips and coolers situations and these situations comes more and more becauze as we know more coolers makes site more rake. Someone saying its can not be a trught, that the site making big money from tourneys everyday. So they dont need somehow cheat for that small amount of money to risk everythink for name of the site and their sponsored players. But fail its just a business and business have to make a money, and when u got 25 000 tables to get raked, its not small amount anymore. Specially if nobody ever gets inside the system to find out a true. But whatever its just a teoretic thought.

For three years playing here i convinced that its not anymore about variance or multitabling so seeing more hands. Yes of course you seeing more hands when you tabling more tables but i presonaly play CAP NL 20bb deep. So when i got allin preflop i mostly have a nuts combinations and goes broke, but whatever. So its even not that i play the hand badly, and give oponent a chance to hit something, but in many times it was a suckout. Now the scary think is that it's not a difficult if you are a programmer with knowledge of poker or having a group of people, who knows the basics, you can make an algorithm that calculate the coming outs and % about what hands can goes postflop to make pot bigger $ like minus200DELETETHIS saying in his comment. Example underdog and mostly of the time bad player wins showdown if he gets there in more % than ussualy does in live poker. Next take just a simply chance to make a set on a flop - it is about 12%, but u cant refuse that it can not be more in some source code with algorithms do it by the people. And who will find out? Of course nobody if you dont have realy huge hand history and statistic programs like HEM you basicly cant. Even if is impossible to break into the system of the site. And i cant tell how many times i flop set or nuts with completly crash hands when someone got a aces or they flops to me. You will say okey i got badbeat its a variance. But not when it happening for the huge period of time. Remember how lost 7 times aces for one hour playing. I was delt 7 times Aces on multitable cashgame and preflop or flop was allin. And get down 6 times. Just disgusting feel. For example here a hand to take a look and think about if variance can goes even like that naturally. First one i played today and i dont know how its posible for players like this plays the limit without busting out all money in few minutes.

http://www.boomplayer.com/cs/poker-h...491_BFAD69FD3A
http://www.boomplayer.com/de/poker-h...898_FC8E6DFACD
http://www.boomplayer.com/poker-hand...590_59C5156450

Another question is why pokerstars and many others sites dont have Badbeat jackpots tables.

Think about if the sharks always win the fish would not come back. And thats not what you can if you run these sites. You need as much players as possible in game cauz the rake and deposits.

Is there any chance that pokerstars will publish the full source code of RNG, not only preflop card shuffle for what they got a license from Cigital company that verify randommes of algorothms. But also all posflop situations to make stop all haters speaking about it's rigged? What happens after the shuffle, when cards are delt nobody knows. Why no-one of the poker sites does published the code? (correct me if im wrong) what to hide, when its just so easy to show ppl the true? And i dont even now speaking about super-users (ultimate bet scandal).

article about RNG (i strongly dont have a reason to disbelieave it):
http://blog.pokerjunkie.com/online-p...esting-the-rng

For me its realy sad to see that no proof of fact that online poker is clear exist. So nobody cant know if cheating going on. Only analysis of profitable players can found it together. But for me now its just too much evidence of that its not just a cocoincidence of the variance. If it was a PLO i can maybe i can understand but not for Holdem. Please let a coment what you are thinking these days about online poker.

It should be far more random, even with the worst pseudo-RNG. Poker doesn't require anything near quantum-entropy-level randomness to be absolutely fair. Any non-random patterns that are gross enough to be observable by a human would not be the result of a poor RNG implementation, you are just misinformed.

I have lost 4BI with my ACES!!! and PS does have superuser accounts! they can see 2 whole cards!!! WTH?

I can't say with certainty if pokerstars is rigged or not, but here's my experience.
I've been playing on pokerstars for 1.5 years, and after a learning periode, I started to end in the prizes quite regularly.
Since I often played cash tables before, I was a silverstar at the moment.
I got quite good at it and managed to win quite a few S&G's (8$, 180 people), finished high in some regular tournaments and made a net profit of 3000$ in 3 months time.
But then it all changed.
I cashed in the majority of my profit, stopped playing cash tables and went down from silverstar to bronze star (inevitable if you play only S&G's and tournaments low and medium stakes).
Ever since, I can only win a few $'s at a time (the max. being 120$) for the last 8 months.
No matter how big the stack I build up during the tournament, when I approach (or enter) the interesting prize-money, I constantly get kicked out with hands I should normally win with, in the most rediculous ways.
This doesn't happen once and a while, it happens constantly, 100% for the last 8 months!!! It has become a certainty!
Recently, I've started writing down and analizing al these hands, and especialy the ones where we go all-in (mostly pre-flop).
The result is this: over about 100 all-ins where I was supposed to win over 70% (according to the odds calculator), I won only about 10%, and this has been going on for 8 months!
Now I know bad streaks can last quite some time, but 8 months????
This is why I suspect that the software used by pokerstars is designed to give an overall advantage (not an absolute advantage) to certain categories of players (probably the bigger spenders and the ones who don't cash in too much of their profit).
I might be wrong, but after 8 months of the most rediculous bad luck, this is really starting to look suspicious!!!
Let me know what you think about my story!
sven_geens@hotmail.com

100% the truth.

Well, yeah. He said he "suspects" that, so of course it is 100% true that he "suspects" it. Don't see why he would lie about his suspicions. Some real detective work there.

I had trips

Also btw, I don't think that Poker Stars is rigged in favor of any particular player.

There is no incentive to do that, at all. If Pokerstars were in the business of ripping players off, they would prefer to make sure everyone wins/loses at a marginal level so they slowly just bleed out via rake.

The only thing I have noticed about PS that is a bit strange is that the boards seem very juicy a little too frequently. Many times (Literally every 2nd to 3rd hand) you'll see flops come A J K suited, or whatever similar flop you like.

Who knows though, it could be totally by chance, and due to the frequency of hands I get to see because of online play, definitely not ruling that out.

Either way though, it is still very possible to be a profiting player on PS. Even if there is a system at work that is not completely random, you as a player putting money onto PS have a responsibility to protect your money and win other player's money. If you're noticing a pattern, you should be able to adapt and exploit that pattern if you are actually a good player.

Considering the above paragraph, it is impossible to lose money on PS by any other way than just being bad at the game. That's a fact you'd best get realistic about real quick, or else you risk screwing up your life.

For those who are implying that Poker stars somehow has some agenda to crap on them, I have news for you; you aren't that important. How do you suppose the people running PS singled you out in the first place? There are perhaps millions of online players and yet they chose you to be the recipient of all of those bad beats? C'mon :P

Here's what you do:

Read some books

Work on your attitude (Its important to realize that it is possible YOU MIGHT BE BAD, JUST SAYING)

Deposit and play with less (You can't be a good player until you could care less about what happens to your money, its impossible to play properly on an emotional high or low)


and yes I know there are a lot of idiots on PS who go all in pre flop with junk like 93o and flop full boats, I KNOW, ITS ANNOYING. But if you check these player's backgrounds, I assure you, guarenteed you will see they are -100% Roi donks who are going broke. YOu just happened to be at the table where he finally hit something, so what.


With a little change in perspective, I think you will find you are just approaching the situation in an immature way and it is blinding you from aquiring the skill and attitude you will need to be good at this game.

I can preach this crap because I have gone through it personaly. I rage quit and uninstalled pokerstars probably over 30 times during temper tantrums, but always came back, because I knew I was being a retard about the whole thing. It took awhile to be a consistantly profiting player, but I do it now and you can too. You just need patience and skill, it's that simple.

One thing that helps too, while I'm on a roll!

Stop feeling so fricking entitled to pots.

That is the common denominator I notice in posters like OP. Comments like:

"My AA's always get cracked by the river, obvious rig." Are delusional and downright scary. If this is your attitude toward the game, please stop playing, for the sake of your children, wife.. etc.

It might be true that AA should win a vast majority of the time vs any other two cards, but people seem to forget that you're up against 5 other players, most of the time. Taking this into account, it almost seems absurd that aces would EVER hold up by the river in ring games.

Think about what you're asking of the game when you say something like "My aces are always beat, its a scam." You are asking the game to make sure that a measly top pair is good enough to take the pot most of the time. ITS YOU who is ridiculous, not the game.

Even if you were a 99% favorite pre flop, you would be losing 5% of the time. Expect it to happen, A LOT. Especially online where you are playing more than 3x faster than live on just 1 table.

You need to realize that the money in the pot does not belong to you, by betting.. you have purchased a CHANCE to take the whole pot, like a lottery ticket. Poker is about getting players to fold the best CHANCE to win that lottery, not about what hands "should" be a gaurenteed win.


Food for thought

I love the way all of the pro ps ballers on here are so sure its not rigged (they too have no evidence to back up there claims). They seem to be denying what they see constantly with there eyes on ps. Crazy hands and bad beats happen a stangering number of times on the site, you pro ps guys must also see this also, but strangely seem to deny it???? I dont play online anymore but play a lot in b&m in london. My biggest worry about ps and online poker as a whole is that there are billions of $'s going into these sites each year, but how many of you on here can honestly say you cash out from ps on a regular basis, say 5 times a year? I know maybe one out of the large number of people i meet in the London poker community. So where does all this money go?????

Poker is somewhat akin to a natural system where the weak feed the strong. In this case the weaker players over the long term provide money into the poker economic system. The poker sites charge money to provide that service (called rake) and they get charged by other companies (processors for instance) for supporting them.

The stronger players in the long run receive the inflow of money from the weaker ones, and many do quite well even after paying for that service.

Those are the people who cash out on a regular basis. Essentially people like you and your buddies in the live games are the economic engine of the poker economy.

You certainly made the correct choice to no longer be prey in the online game you cannot compete in, but many others still continue to play out of either enjoyment or a delusional assessment of their place in the ecosystem. You probably think you are a good poker player for instance.

Anyway, best of luck in the live arena. The competition is considerably weaker in live games so you may have a chance to compete.

All the best.

Here is some evidence to backup those claims. So you are just wrong here.
http://www.ispokerrigged.com/

As has been made clear many times, human memory is not a video recorder. It does not accurately record and replay the things that it experiences. It is biased. And as such people tend to remember things that seem crazy to them. Further, humans also tend to see 95% shots to win as "locks" when in fact they are not. They will lose 5% of the time. People greatly over-estimate their probability of winning in a given spot and under-estimate the true probability of bad luck. So they report silly things like you do above. That "crazy hands" and "bad beats" happen a staggering (my correction) number of times. But in fact, they do not. See the link above.

Do you realize that many people actually make a living playing online poker? I'd say a generous portion of the money goes to their pockets when they cash out each month. It does seem likely that many more people have never cashed out than actually cashed out. But that is just because a ton of people put money online, lose it, and quit...never to be seen again. A smaller portion of players cash out some of their bankroll each month to pay the bills. They play everyday and don't have time to read threads like this one filled with lifetime losers complaining about how the game is rigged. They are more concentrated on beating the pants off of those players.

Using "only 1 live player I know in London has ever cashed out" as evidence is just silly. Many live players never played online. Many more are like yourself, and quite frankly suck at poker. So they get crushed in the much tougher online games and sulk back to their live tables where they have more a chance against weaker competition.

Roughly a third of online players are net winners (varies a little depending on which database or study you look at). Some portion of those are cashing out.