Most of the "famous" high stakes players on Stars started out as...low stakes players on Stars. Gasp! Shock!If you see someone with tight stats and this player calls huge reraises and you are neary with half your buyin in pot preflop and then this player hits the flop good then this looks strange.And that's where you go to PTR, look them up, and see they're down ~$3k lifetime and their graph is basically straight down, with tiny spikes from when they suck out, or if it's in a tourney you chek out their Sharkscope and it's the same pattern.
Those are actual patterns. Just saying "Gee, a dumb player sucked out on me, must be rigged" is idiotic. It's easier, obviously, to pretend that there's no way to check for what you "see", but the problem is for most of those things there is a way to check, and usually what you "saw" was wrong.
I still don't understand why you're so against posting your graphs that you feel are proof it's rigged against you. (Actually, I do understand. Your ego can't handle other people telling you that you're the reason you lose, not a global conspiracy.)You can actually determine how often those things should and did happen, instead of just rambling and speculating and regaling us with tales of you being a favorite on the flop but losing on the river.All you're doing is describing the game of poker, you nitwit. Why do you think the flop is three cards and the turn and river are only one?Then start doing some legwork to prove it, dummy. Next time you experience some "brutal" beat, look up the player who beat you on PTR. Chances are if he actually was getting his money in bad, he does that a lot and will have a ****ty graph. If he has a winning graph, you might be on to something. You're probably not, but you're the one who believes in this voodoo, not me.
They make ~$45 million a month based on that one random day's rake I posted earlier. I doubt any amount of house bots that are as undetectable as your hypothetical ones could take anywhere near that amount out of the games, let alone the 100x the amount you speculated earlier.
Think about that: Your previous wild speculation was that Stars used house bots to take $4,500,000,000 out of the games every month.
Then you act as if people are being paid to disagree with you when you claim that Stars house bots are taking billions of dollars every month, and not that they're disagreeing with you because what you're saying is INSANE.
I say its rigged and whoever plays there just wastes time and money.
Dont call things i tell here to be tales. Whatever i told here happened.
The only future of online poker is clean and fair poker. There is no other way everything else is a dream. But Pokerstars should be checked until the last hand before it is allowed anywhere. In my opinion it should be closed as fast as possible i am convinced it is rigged. I told why i think so.
You write so much always and always it is just empty phrases. You dont make much sense. Read my posts again.
Thats why i dont respond to your phrases you cant come here and twist my words and change like you want. What i said and did write is there. You always abbreviate what i write and say after this is what you said. Either you do that with intention what i think more or you are just a stupid person.
So, you argue is because you cant prove it. So we should watch it?!
Well, I stick with math...
I stick with math too but its not about math. They can call everything bad beat or running under ev nearly. I gave some examples of some hands. There you are favourite preflop and at flop and still you lose. So this is running under ev if everything would be fair i just dont think it is. Someone with tight agressive statistics calling huge reraises preflop half buyin in the pot preflop it doesnt fit together why should that kind of a player play like this? Even if i look at gameflow there was no reason to tilt but suddenly loosening up why should a player do that? There can be just one reason. He knows he will hit the flop and win the hand.
Then again hands where you are favourite even at flop but the other player chases a weak flushdraw while you hold set and strong flush draw at the same time and at river the other player gets a straight to win. These are examples how they beat players. You cant get out of these hands you will lose your money its like that.
Its a bad style to abbreviate and twist someones posts by the way. What i said i said and you can read it again.
Someone with tight agressive statistics calling huge reraises preflop half buyin in the pot preflop it doesnt fit together why should that kind of a player play like this?
You don't understand humans at all. They are not nearly as predictable as you think. You are making a classic mistake known as correspondence bias (i.e. you attribute entirely too much the cause of behavior to the features of the person and assume that people are much more consistent than they actually are).
I say its rigged and whoever plays there just wastes time and money.
Dont call things i tell here to be tales. Whatever i told here happened.
Yet again, you claim to know Stars is rigged, but have no way of showing why you think that. And this time, you even go so far as to say that what you saw definitely happened.
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The only future of online poker is clean and fair poker. There is no other way everything else is a dream. But Pokerstars should be checked until the last hand before it is allowed anywhere. In my opinion it should be closed as fast as possible i am convinced it is rigged. I told why i think so.
You just said vague generic **** like "weak players win too much". Your "evidence" is non-existent.
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You write so much always and always it is just empty phrases.
It's not empty phrases, actually. It's trying to explain to you exactly why whatever wrong thing you've just posted is wrong. I realize that replying to you with anything other than "You're definitely right, you're a genius!" is pointless, but it's fun to actually go through the silly things you say to try to see how realistic they are. So far, they're not realistic at all. That doesn't help your case based on what you "saw".
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You dont make much sense. Read my posts again.
I don't make much sense? I don't even know how to respond to that, really. Maybe in the future I'll just randomly slap my hands on the keyboard instead of typing.
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Thats why i dont respond to your phrases you cant come here and twist my words and change like you want. What i said and did write is there.
What did I twist and change?
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You always abbreviate what i write and say after this is what you said. Either you do that with intention what i think more or you are just a stupid person.
I abbreviate what you say because half of your posts are usually unrelated drivel, but of course from now on I'll be sure not to remove a single precious word from them.
It's also funny how you started out on here crying like a baby when someone called you an idiot, ranting and raving about how rude that was, and now you have no problem calling people stupid left and right. How the mighty have fallen.
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Originally Posted by truthsbehind
I stick with math too but its not about math.
Then why are you sticking with it?
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They can call everything bad beat or running under ev nearly. I gave some examples of some hands. There you are favourite preflop and at flop and still you lose.
All of that is testable. You're getting upset at the game of poker itself. You're amazed that a game designed to have draws and suckouts has...draws and suckouts.
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So this is running under ev if everything would be fair i just dont think it is.
In a fair game, no one would run -EV?
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Someone with tight agressive statistics calling huge reraises preflop half buyin in the pot preflop it doesnt fit together why should that kind of a player play like this? Even if i look at gameflow there was no reason to tilt but suddenly loosening up why should a player do that? There can be just one reason. He knows he will hit the flop and win the hand.
Yes, it's impossible to come to any other conclusion. It's certainly impossible he might make bad calls frequently but folds when he misses, so you never know. Also impossible is the idea of LOOKING UP THESE PLAYERS ONLINE to see if they do have the power to see the future, as you said was the only possibility.
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Then again hands where you are favourite even at flop but the other player chases a weak flushdraw while you hold set and strong flush draw at the same time and at river the other player gets a straight to win. These are examples how they beat players.
They're also examples of ridiculously infrequent hands. Look through your database for them, go ahead. You'll have a handful of them at best, unless you've played way more hands than I think you have.
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You cant get out of these hands you will lose your money its like that.
Terrible players love saying that.
How can one have a set and a strong flush draw on the flop, by the way?
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Its a bad style to abbreviate and twist someones posts by the way. What i said i said and you can read it again.
This wasn't directed at me this time, but of course I've left it in so as not to abbreviate what you said.
You didnt prove here anything and you cant prove anything
Look in the mirror and say those words to yourself several times.
You're a complete joke. You've got some laughable theories and precious little evidence.
If Stars has house players or bots, name them.
If Stars rigs the deck, prove it.
I stick with math too but its not about math. They can call everything bad beat or running under ev nearly. I gave some examples of some hands. There you are favourite preflop and at flop and still you lose. So this is running under ev if everything would be fair i just dont think it is. Someone with tight agressive statistics calling huge reraises preflop half buyin in the pot preflop it doesnt fit together why should that kind of a player play like this? Even if i look at gameflow there was no reason to tilt but suddenly loosening up why should a player do that? There can be just one reason. He knows he will hit the flop and win the hand.
Then again hands where you are favourite even at flop but the other player chases a weak flushdraw while you hold set and strong flush draw at the same time and at river the other player gets a straight to win. These are examples how they beat players. You cant get out of these hands you will lose your money its like that.
Its a bad style to abbreviate and twist someones posts by the way. What i said i said and you can read it again.
Yeah, I know exacly what you mean. Noob donk shoves 200 BB pre with unsuited crap and you hold AA and loose. Extreme irrational play rewarded by runnerrunner and these events occur beyond all odds. And this seem like never ends. The gap between actually earning and EV shove is distance earth-moun. Or a aggro fish 3bets 40% of all hands and when you make finally a stand with KK he has AA. Or hit set etc.
I this would occur single days, I wouldn't say anthing, but at PS it has extreme frequency of such days. That reveals PS is rigged.
By the way, good player could loose up, because ATS, position, spotting fish etc. So I
wouldn't overrate single events.
Last edited by HeisenRange; 04-10-2012 at 01:18 PM.
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 4 J
3 folds, MP2 raises to 2,400, MP3 raises to 8,192 and is all-in, CO raises to 13,984, BTN folds, SB raises to 36,683 and is all-in, 2 folds, CO calls 21,070 and is all-in
Flop: (83,025) 6 6 4 (3 players, 3 are all-in) Turn: (83,025) 4 (3 players, 3 are all-in) River: (83,025) J (3 players, 3 are all-in)
Spoiler:
Results: 83,025 pot
Final Board: 6 6 4 4 J
MP3 showed Q Q and lost (-8,317 net)
CO showed A A and won 83,025 (47,846 net)
SB showed K K and lost (-35,179 net)
You don't understand humans at all. They are not nearly as predictable as you think. You are making a classic mistake known as correspondence bias (i.e. you attribute entirely too much the cause of behavior to the features of the person and assume that people are much more consistent than they actually are).
You shouldnt come with you dont understand humans you have no clue like phrases this is really too stupid. You shouldnt generalize that much. I gave a clear example and in that example someone with tightagressive stats suddenly makes a move nearly half buyin in preflop and before he didnt play that much hands. I have a good hand and he has not more than a mediocre hand at the most but he pushes it. Why should he do that suddenly? I even asked why he did such a move after playing so tight. You think i got an answer? And what he could tell me? That he is a maniac who plays like that even that he couldnt say because he played tight.
Look in the mirror and say those words to yourself several times.
You're a complete joke. You've got some laughable theories and precious little evidence.
If Stars has house players or bots, name them.
If Stars rigs the deck, prove it.
Or just STFU, you know-nothing clown.
I talked about my opinion and i told how i did come to that opinion.
If i could prove it i would do it. If it would be that easy many think its rigged but nobody could prove until now because its not that easy. They must rig the game justa bit and certain days and hours and this alone would mean big profit for them but after it would appear juts like a statistic. I hope that players come together and start to question things. By the way dont insult me every second post you stupid person.
You shouldnt come with you dont understand humans you have no clue like phrases this is really too stupid. You shouldnt generalize that much. I gave a clear example and in that example someone with tightagressive stats suddenly makes a move nearly half buyin in preflop and before he didnt play that much hands. I have a good hand and he has not more than a mediocre hand at the most but he pushes it. Why should he do that suddenly? I even asked why he did such a move after playing so tight. You think i got an answer? And what he could tell me? That he is a maniac who plays like that even that he couldnt say because he played tight.
Ok. Let me see if I understand.
I shouldn't say that you don't understand humans because that phrase is too stupid. Yet, somehow, in your entire reply you cannot explain how I am wrong. In fact, all you did was say the same thing you said before. The same thing that I already responded to. So let me see if I can help you form a coherent response. Try answering the following questions:
Why is it that you think this particular player should have been more consistent in his play? How is it exactly that you are not engaging in the correspondence bias? Why do you think this player should have not put his money in with a bad hand? You wanted him to play better against you? How do you know that this particular play wasn't just a misclick?
The fact is you don't know the answers to many of these questions. It is impossible for you to know. So in an effort to answer them you have created a "story" that this player somehow has inside knowledge of how the cards will be dealt and played this hand in such a way as to personally "get you." The problem with this theory is that it is completely contradicted by the prior information you have given. You said he was playing Tight and Aggressive. If the player really had inside information on how the cards would be dealt, why would he play Tight and Aggressive? Why wasn't he playing every hand that he knew he would win? Tight players frequently fold in hands that they would have eventually won. But clearly this player wasn't doing that. He only played 1 hand "funny" according to your theory on how he "should" have played. Explain that.
Two Plus Two
J
6
and lost (-8,317 net)
Linear Mode
