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01-17-2017 , 07:45 AM
Hi guys, I am new to this forum and have been playing poker for less than a year. I have recently discovered a study done by spadebidder which is quite interesting actually. http://www.spadebidder.com/flop-analysis/part7/

Now, concluding from his study, because of the card removal effect, low cards will flop more than high cards on the long run ( because of the fact that players usually tend to play holdings that include high cards : A J, A Q, K Q, K J, etc. ). I find myself unable to answer the following question : does this mean that hands like A K, A Q, K J etc.( you get the point) lose their equity in the long run and lower ranked cards actually increase their equity? I may sound clueless but I am hoping someone can clear things up for me. Ty in advance!
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01-17-2017 , 09:23 AM
they might lose some "flopability" (therefore, equity) because players block each other, but that still doesn't mean you should play 74o. ak is still 58.7% against 67 with 2 dead kings and 1 dead ace, while with no dead cards it's 61.6%. and there's always the problem of actually playing the hand postflop, since you're playing against a range so you should still stick to high cards
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01-17-2017 , 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by md46135
they might lose some "flopability" (therefore, equity) because players block each other, but that still doesn't mean you should play 74o. ak is still 58.7% against 67 with 2 dead kings and 1 dead ace, while with no dead cards it's 61.6%. and there's always the problem of actually playing the hand postflop, since you're playing against a range so you should still stick to high cards
Oh, that's reassuring, tx man. And this applies to live poker as well as online, right?
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01-17-2017 , 09:36 AM
well yeah, as long as the shuffle is fair and as random as possible.
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01-17-2017 , 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by md46135
well yeah, as long as the shuffle is fair and as random as possible.
Mhm. I also hear that the online shuffle is more close to real and random than the live shuffle, at least at the bigger sites like PS, 888 etc. Am I right?
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01-17-2017 , 10:03 AM
very possible. bigger sites have their algorithms, while at live table you have some guy shuffling cards. here's a really interesting video about card shuffling from numberphile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxJubaijQbI
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01-17-2017 , 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by alex20823
I also hear that the online shuffle is more close to real and random than the live shuffle
What does this mean to you?
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01-17-2017 , 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace
What does this mean to you?
That live, dealers might not shuffle that correctly and you could actually see same flops occur consecutively. Actually, the video above explains it quite well.
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01-17-2017 , 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Didace
What does this mean to you?
May I ask why?
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01-17-2017 , 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by alex20823
Actually, the video above explains it quite well.
The video doesn't say too much to me. It's just a lot of blather about more shuffling (to a point) is better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex20823
May I ask why?
You seem to be looking for something new about how the odds in poker work. "more close to real and random" just struck me as you don't quite understand how "random" works and I wanted you to articulate what you meant.
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01-17-2017 , 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace
The video doesn't say too much to me. It's just a lot of blather about more shuffling (to a point) is better.
You seem to be looking for something new about how the odds in work. "more close to real and random" just struck me as you don't quite understand how "random" works and I wanted you to articulate what you meant.
Well, to me randomness in poker means to be unable at any given point in any hand to predict the card that is going to come next. And I was curious about spadebidder's findings. I don't pretend to be an expert in probability, far from it, that's why I'm asking around here because I know that there are people more competent than me in this field.
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01-17-2017 , 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace
The video doesn't say too much to me. It's just a lot of blather about more shuffling (to a point) is better.
You seem to be looking for something new about how the odds in work. "more close to real and random" just struck me as you don't quite understand how "random" works and I wanted you to articulate what you meant.
Also, I was just interested if that study affects equity ( probability of winning ) of premium or good hands : A J, A Q etc. And if any if you guys adjust your play to that. Any advice would be much appreciated ^_^
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01-17-2017 , 03:53 PM
The Probability Forum is happy to answer any of your questions, but you now seem to be asking questions more suited for the Beginners Questions Forum (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...ers-questions/) or one of 2+2's several poker strategy forums.
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01-17-2017 , 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by whosnext
The Probability is happy to answer any of your questions, but you now seem to be asking questions more suited for the Beginners Questions (http://server.twoplustwo.com/32/beginners-questions/) or one of 2+2's several s.
Will do. Didn't mean to cause any trouble.
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