Two Plus Two Poker Forums 52 factorial and action community cards/whole cards
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 07-01-2012, 03:39 AM #1 journeyman   Join Date: May 2012 Location: betting to win Posts: 245 The total number of ways of laying out the deck is then: 52 x 51 x 50 x 49 x 48 x 47 x ..... x 3 x 2 x 1 This is '52 factorial', or 52! (the exclamation point being the symbol for 'factorial') The value of 52! is incredibly large. It's a 68-digit number: 80,658,175,170,943,878,571,660,636,856,403,766,975 ,289,505,440,883,277,824,000,000,000,000 In all those shuffles you wouldn't have rearranged the cards even a fraction of the total number of possible ways! But there are numerous complaints about patterns in the community card texture in online poker. source: http://www.worsleyschool.net/science...k/ofcards.html The real question is out of this number 80,658,175,170,943,878,571,660,636,856,403,766,975 ,289,505,440,883,277,824,000,000,000,000 how many possible ways are there to write a shuffle script to induce action with the community cards? What I am implying is that a poker site can possibly use only a select arrangement /fraction of that number to deal their games so that action is induced with the community cards/whole cards. It would be easy for them to do it with the right computer programmers. To give you an idea of how a script is written by a computer programmer for online poker, please visit this link http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showtopic=351872 If you have a deck of cards at home and some spare time please try doing this, the scripts are for both texas holdem and omaha, please follow the directions on the site http://www.benjoffe.com/holdem http://www.benjoffe.com/omaha The scripts on www.benjoffe.com will give you an idea of what is possible to do with a deck of cards. You can visualize how it is done here is a complete overview of the Ben Joffe scriptshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTFBYEq9UgE Ben Joffe job experience Current: Senior Mobile Web Developer at Vivant Past: Front End Developer at Yahoo!7 Developer Intern - User Interface Engineering team at Facebook Front End Developer at Yahoo!7 Developer at Opera Software Developer Intern at Opera Software If you have taken the time to do the scripts on www.benjoffe.com with a real deck of cards, you will without a doubt notice that is possible to control who wins and who loses in a game of texas holdem and omaha. Have fun everyone! Oh btw, don't forget to try the combination decks on www.benjoffe.com ! Last edited by Mike Haven; 07-01-2012 at 08:11 PM. Reason: Moved from IP at request of OP
 07-01-2012, 10:51 PM #2 adept   Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Nova Posts: 738 Re: 52 factorial and action community cards/whole cards In a nutshell, you're asking how many "action" shuffles there are? You'll have to define "action board" and "action hand matchups" (since it's relative to the players). Once you do, it's just a combinatorics question. Or are you asking how many ways there are to write an action-board-generating code? If so, I don't get the point of that. How many ways are there to program "Hello world"...many ways, but so what?
 07-02-2012, 06:36 PM #3 journeyman   Join Date: May 2012 Location: betting to win Posts: 245 Re: 52 factorial and action community cards/whole cards Hi heehaw, there are many examples of action boards and whole cards. examples of community card action: over pair vs lower pocket pair set 2 pair vs. 2 pair 3 of a kind vs. 3 of a kind straight vs. straight vs. flush flush vs. flush vs. full house full house vs. full house 2 pair vs. 3 of a kind vs. straight or flush there are many more examples but the above scenarios should give you a general idea, basically cooler situations
 07-02-2012, 07:35 PM #4 Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Psychology Department Posts: 7,430 Re: 52 factorial and action community cards/whole cards You didn't answer the question. You need to provide something specific. Something general with examples cannot be tested. Specify something specific. Gather the data. Find our you are wrong. ez game.
 07-03-2012, 02:30 AM #5 adept   Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Nova Posts: 738 Re: 52 factorial and action community cards/whole cards I know what you mean by action board, but I'm saying it has to be specifically defined in order for us to do specific math. Obviously quads over quads is an action board, but what are the minimum qualifications for you to consider it an action board? And how much action must the board generate? Must it be a cooler, or does it only need to cause a showdown, or does it only need to generate max rake? And what I meant by it being relative is, at a table full of donkeys or calling stations, it doesn't take as much to generate action. Give someone a gutshot and they'll check-call on the flop and turn. Give someone top pair, rag kicker and they'll stay to the showdown.
07-03-2012, 10:27 AM   #6
Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,341
Quote:
 Originally Posted by heehaww In a nutshell, you're asking how many "action" shuffles there are?
No, he's just asking for people to visit his website. I'm on a phone so I can't click the little triangle to report post as spam, but if someone else agrees that this is spam, please bring it to a mod attention.

 07-03-2012, 11:04 AM #7 Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,953 Re: 52 factorial and action community cards/whole cards looks like spam to me
07-03-2012, 11:58 AM   #8
journeyman

Join Date: May 2012
Location: betting to win
Posts: 245
Re: 52 factorial and action community cards/whole cards

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RollWave No, he's just asking for people to visit his website. I'm on a phone so I can't click the little triangle to report post as spam, but if someone else agrees that this is spam, please bring it to a mod attention.

This thread is not spam. The contents in the OP regarding links to websites about shuffle scripts for a 52 card deck etc.. should imho be taken seriously by the online poker community if and when they are made aware.

btw i am not the owner of www.benjoffe.com nor am i Ben Joffe.

Last edited by Feel; 07-03-2012 at 12:17 PM.

 07-03-2012, 01:00 PM #9 Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,953 Re: 52 factorial and action community cards/whole cards Then why did you like include his freakin resume? I also don't see how his shuffle scripts are in any way germane or interesting in regards to your OP.
07-03-2012, 01:42 PM   #10

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nova
Posts: 738
Re: 52 factorial and action community cards/whole cards

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Feel This thread is not spam.
You were supposed to say that BEFORE rusty said it looked like spam.

Quote:
 Alright, Kathy, it looks like Stewie Griffin is preparing to begin the floor routine. That's right, Mitch, and as we watch Griffin doing this, I want to remind everyone that this is absolutely not gay.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Brian Boy, that was really gay.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Stewie No! No! Didn't you just hear the announcers? They said it's not gay. Ha-ha! Stewie one, you zero.

 07-03-2012, 02:56 PM #11 Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Psychology Department Posts: 7,430 Re: 52 factorial and action community cards/whole cards This shuffle script stuff has been around for a long time. At least I remember reading it a long time ago. The idea was, "can I make a deck so that no matter how many times it is cut a particular player will win a hold'em hand that is run hot and cold?" and the answer was yes. I don't see how this has any particular bearing on cheating in online poker though. If you are implying that poker websites could do this you are right. If you are playing that they might be employing this, you are certainly wrong. And it doesn't take much thought to see why.
 07-04-2012, 12:55 AM #12 veteran   Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In the wires Posts: 2,276 Re: 52 factorial and action community cards/whole cards So wait, the point of this thread is that it's possible to stack a deck of cards? omg call the frickin news.

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