CI feel blessed that neither of these hands involved me or I probably would have let my mouth get the better of me. This happened in a 2/5 game in a smaller room here in Florida. The second incident, to me, seemed extremely underhanded...

Villain in these hands has approx $1.3k in front of him but is in for at least 3. I think other than when he's gotten up to go to the bathroom or get a beer I have yet to see him fold pre, regardless of action.

First hand in question he got to the river on a K23 flop, 45o on turn and river. First he leads out of turn on the river for $100 into a $350 pot. Immediately the other player in the hand says "ouch... are we chopping or did you get lucky?" The villain responds, "guess you'll have to call to find out!" Then proceeds to put on sunglasses and earbuds. The other player briefly goes into the tank, couldn't have been more than a minute due to the high hand clock and starts to assemble chips. The villain immediately tables one card, a K and goes "man!" before the dealer reaches out and says "he hasn't acted." The man removes the earbuds and says "oops! I thought he called my dang king." Floor is called and tells action to continue. Kid calls, guy rolls over a 6 and goes, "welp... I had a king."

Didn't think that one was as bad as the second incident.

Villain is involved with a new player at the table in a hand that gets to the river again. Massive pot, at least 1.5k as it was four ways until the river and got to heads up. Flop was JT7r, turn was another J and river was a K. The new player announces all in for approx $675. Villain goes into the tank (same routing with sunglasses and earbuds) before he reaches down into his bag and grabs a granola bar and his wallet. He starts fiddling around and says, "sorry guys, big decision here" and chews away for two minutes. Eventually he coin-flip styles a red chip in the middle. New play says, "just a jack sir" and rolls over AJ. Villain goes, "I didn't call... Actually, I'm all in." Dealer says, "sir, you called, that's your chip." And villain says, "no, that's my lucky chip from (some random card room), I was coin flipping to see if I was going to call or raise. I raise."

Just to clarify... Yes, he verbalized a raise to an already all in player. I thought about trying to record the whole damn thing on my phone but I was in the 10 seat and have heard a lot of people fussing on YouTube about casinos getting up in arms about taping at the table.

You said the first guy in second hand was already all in - so what did the bad guy raise for??

I have no idea, I don't think he was paying attention to the game. End result was obvious he won, had a straight


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In the first hand, is it heads up on the river? If so, is there a rule against exposing cards in the room where this happened? If the answers are yes and no, then it's an angleshot (as opposed to cheating) and I don't see how the floor should be involved. I personally wouldn't do what "Villain" did but I also wouldn't have been dumb enough to call.

The second one is plainly an attempt at cheating. If I were the floor, it would be a call, the pot would be awarded to the best hand, and "Villain" would be handed a rack and told to not come back for a week (assuming it was his first offense).

First hand meh whatever.

Second hand .... did the red chip he flipped in the middle come out of his bag? He's not allowed to add chips in the middle of a hand. Does it look like the chips in use at this place or is it clearly different? Does the chip actually have two different sides? Most casino chips are the same on both sides so useless as a coin flip.

I think the 2nd was clearly an angle. I'm most likely holding him to a call here. Possibly inviting him to leave the room for the day.

How did the dealer respond when he put that chip in the middle? Typically the dealer will give a "Call" or "Show me the winner" comment at that point and with that I'd certainly hold the other guy in the hand faultless.

I honestly couldn't see where the chip came from but I had been playing with them for at least a few hours and hadn't seen it. The dealer actually said "that looks like a call."


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Lots of potential issues here .. but maybe not either.

1) If showing card(s) and table talk are allowed in the room then this one is going to stand as 'game play'. Certainly V should receive a warning about playing out of turn but I'm gong to assume that The Floor isn't really going to ruffle the feathers of this (assumed) reg too much. If the show or talk is a room violation, then V loses pot. V can't be held for telling the truth about his hand since he showed it anyway, so it comes down to whether the show or talk is allowed to begin with.

2) Another case of stretching the rules. Avoiding any room rule discussion here, I'm not allowing the raise and telling this player that he needs to remove 'this' card protector from the table due to it's similarity to the chips in play. This will certainly bring out the 'single chip' detractors but as a player you should verify action before offering any new information. I'm not going to let this player's action (with an illegal prop no less) allow him to profit beyond the bet he faced ... if he has the best hand. GL

PS .. yes, the all-in changes things obviously in this spot, but if 'new player' had chips behind he's keeping them and we go to showdown.

First one is an old trick. Vast majority of the time the unexposed card makes the hand.

Second one ... what is the problem? Opponent bets (all in), Guy claims he wants to raise. Effectively that is a call. Are you saying that he claimed "If I cannot raise, I fold"?

First one is a scummy thing to do, but pretty clearly allowed if you can table talk/expose cards head's up.

Second one I assume the angle is not that he's raising, but that the new player exposed his cards. If angler is ahead, he says he called, if not he says the chip is from out of the room and he didn't call. I'd just hold him to a call no matter what. Angler should have kept his mouth shut here, and just exposed his hand also. He only gets an advantage from this angle when he's behind and wants to claim he can still fold.

The angle in the second one appears to be that if opponent turns over a full house, then villain says "i didn't call, this is just a lucky chip, I was flipping to see whether or not I would call."

As played, there really isn't a need for a ruling on the hand itself, since villain could beat the opponent, and there's no way to come to a ruling that involves villain not calling the bet either before or after opponent exposed.

If opponent had had a full house, then it would be a more interesting ruling. I'd also check the chip being used, see if it had different sides, see if his story made sense, see if he pulled it out of his bag, etc. But I'd be looking for any inconsistency, and if I found one I would hold him to a call.

Either way, I am handing him a rack and 86ing him for some amount of time, unless I was truly convinced that there was no malice intended, which doesn't seem like it would be the case.

Finally, I tell opponent that he should protect his hand better, and not be in a hurry to expose his hand until he is sure opponent has called, or until all the chips are over the line. Here's yet another example where a one chip call caused a problem. Allowing them is terrible, and even when the room rules allow them, you are under no obligation to do anything without confirming the call verbally, or even waiting until the pot is right. Doing either of these things would have allowed opponent to protect himself from this angle or misunderstanding, whichever it was.

Only a noob donk falls for the first trick. Usually they only fall for it once.

Second hand. First guy went all in. Other guy called with winning hand after unnecessary theatrics. Where is the violation?

there are *** ***** in every poker room, he is one of them.

There was a couple more spots that happened similar to the second one later in the session but this one just got my attention more than anything. To be clear, I wasn't the one that called the floor. I pretty much keep to myself during games. (Until some old racists guys ask me if I'm asleep or trying to do some Asian mind trick on them.)


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Nothing wrong with the first instance. Deception about the strength of your hand during the betting pahse of poker is inherently part of the game.

The second case inidicates a problem to me. obviously it was meaningless since he couldn't raise because his opponent was all in.. But what it tells me is he was trying to angle his opponent (if he paid more attention he wouldn't have bothered) by being deceptive about the actual STATE OF THE ACTION.

First case... an old trick. I don't care for it, don't plan to use it, don't need to slap a label on it. If room rules punish prematurely exposed cards, then follow the room rules. If not, then new kid learned a lesson. May or may not have actually cost the $100, as they might have decided to call anyway.

Second case... scummy move 100%. Absolutely would have claimed to not have called if new player shows a full house. If the floor is called, pot still gets awarded to the best hand. Only gets better if the new player just rolled a Jack and said just a jack... then proceeded to feign surprise to find the kicker paired the board!

What can a floor do? Show the underhanded player the door for any length of time based on prior behaviors.

Can I think of a reason for the floor to take the pot away?
Could a floor correctly rules that the player tossed an object (not a valid casino chip) into the pot, to gain information, and therefore folded. Thinking the same punishment as if the same players were seated next to each other, and the underhanded player simply pick up the new players hand to peek. Ship the pot to new player as if underhanded folded.

The second hand was pretty bad but I don't mind since the guy announced "just a jack". Seriously gtfo.

#1 is technically within the rules of most cardrooms, but not all. Personally, it's grey area ethically and I wouldn't do it. Most of the time people that do this give away exactly what they have, so I wouldn't want to discourage it.

#2 is probably an angle but we'll never know. If 3-jacks had a boat instead and V tried to weasel out of it, then he's getting a rack and a vacation after he pays off. But otherwise we can't really prove that he had ill intent. It's entirely possible that he genuinely misunderstood the action (although not very likely) but we can't really know what he would have done had 3-jacks turned over a boat instead.

A stern lecture about pulling crap like would be warranted, but not a ban IMO.

I assume that he was claiming a raise there to set the precedent that throwing the "souvenir" chip in was not a call, so he could use the angle again later.

Protect yourself by not showing your hand and if you feel the antics are not worth the money he dumps on the table, start complaining to the floor. Those guys only seem to get tossed in Florida if letting them play becomes too big a hassle for management.

Exactly. "It wasn't a call last time" etc.

The only thing I can think of is treating the fake chip toss as a misdeclared hand. If you treat it like a pump fake, the usual punishment is to make his call binding, which doesn't really help here.

If I was a player here, I would inform every new player who sat down of what happened, and to protect their hand when playing against chip tosser.

If chip tosser is in a hand, and does something like that, I would immediately ask the dealer to clarify the action, even if I was not in the hand.

#1 This old move is so common. Very low on the angle chart IMHO. Likely a large majority of rooms now allow it HU. Only very new players usually fall for this one.
#2 One chip calls are also very common. IDK what the guy thought he would gain from claiming it was not a call by saying all in. OP said the other guy raised AI. OP said it was HU right? Is there something else here?

idk why people are brushing away the first hand so easily. Maybe it's not technically against the rules but it's definitely a super scummy angle.

Revealing a card and lying about one's hand while the other player is considering what to do is scummy, but well within the rules and not something you'd get the floor involved in.

The second move is an angle while the action is on villain, specifically intended to get extra information he's not entitled to (player to reveal hand). That's ban-able.

I had to think about that, too. The thing you missed is the fact that while one chip calls might very common, the player used a chip that's not from that card room. Technically, throwing in a chip from a different casino isn't different from thowing in your card protector or your neighbors phone. [Not sure what happens if you throw in a chip from your neighbors stack, besides probably getting kicked out?]

If the guy is a sophisticated angle shooter, he's trying to make sure that the floor understands he didn't mean to call so he doesn't try to hold him to a call in future instances if he uses that chip again. So he can basically use the same "trick" next time and say he didn't call if his opponent shows the nuts.

Well within the rules in a room that doesn't have a rule about revealing your hand. There are rooms that kill your hand for doing that.

It is not remotely against the house rules in many ,many rooms. It is also not very effective any more and wastes time mostly. It has become a very weak angle these days. Certainly not a super move one way ot the other in my opinion. It is annoying to have to wait for stuff like this when you are out of a hand.