Hi everyone! This is a question with a few parts so bear with me please.

We all know that poker is primarily a game of information and a game/sport you play with your brain, and thus, there aren't conventional ways of "doping" as in other sports. It's kinda part of the beauty of poker. You will never see an amateur tennis player win a prestigious tennis tournament, but it happens in poker and has happened many times.

Obviously, there's also no method of guaranteeing yourself a win in poker, short of planting cameras where you can see your opponents cards, but there are ways to give yourself an edge, that would be illegal at many other sports, but I have never seen them be discussed in the context of poker, which makes me wonder.

For example, let's say I'm competing in a deep-stack tournament lasting 8 days. Surely, I have to be a good poker player and catch cards, but also I can give myself an edge endurance-wise if I were to take something like Aderall or Ritalin, or even cocaine. Whereas they don't directly help me win, they definitely give me an artificial boost in my focus on the game, which a lot of people lose after playing poker for 8 hours a day for 8 days, and also prolongs my endurance just to sit there.

Or let's say I am up against a master reader of faces and tells0. It's of course legal to don a hoodie and sunglasses and a scarf and try to hide my tells, but I can also take a drug like Valium which helps regulate spikes in my heartbeat, minimize my sweating and reduce the dilation of my pupils. In a way, it's even better than sunglasses, as with sunglasses, the opponent may not be able to get a read, but with a Valium and no sunglasses, the opponent may actually make an incorrect read which can make a huge difference.

So to sum up this whole thing:

A. Are there any rules and regulations in poker against "doping" of any kind? Is it illegal to do cocaine, Valium, Aderall, or Beta Blockers before sitting at a table in a tournament? (I'm talking live obviously, since there's no way to regulate that stuff online)

B. Do you, as poker players, and regardless of regulations, think it's ethical to take such medications and give yourself that edge? I think ethics/etiquette are equally as important in poker as rules, ie it's not illegal to slow play but no one does it.

C. Have you ever taken anything to give yourself an edge, and if so, did it achieve what you were hoping it to?

D. Is there a line you would draw as to what should and shouldn't be illegal? ie do taking drugs just equal wearing a hoodie insofar as they only help you in not giving your opponent some information which is the whole goal of poker? Or do you think it's ok to take supplements to help you last longer at the tables, but not ones that help you give off inaccurate tells?

Sorry for the long post. This is just something I've been thinking about a lot, and never heard it be discussed anywhere.

what are you on?

A. Unsure, doubt it

B. Sure why not. I'm no drug expert but there would probably be cons to some of them

C. I have high anxiety levels when playing live which is only a few times a year. I have essential tremors which shows in my hands. When playing a stone-cold bluff or betting with the nuts my bodies reaction is the same with a racing heart beat and hands shaking so bad it is difficult for me to handle the chips. Whilst it's beneficial my reaction is near on similar (obviously there would be other tells to the observant individual I'm unaware of that differ in those situations mentioned), it gave me self-conscious problems at the table. To control this I drink spirits to calm my nerves. Two drinks in that first hour work a treat and then one every hour afterwards. Obviously it has to be controlled because that initial sense of well being can be quickly destroyed by too much alcohol.

D. None of this concerns me. That said I have no idea how much of an edge drugs like cocaine or Ritalin would give an individual.

I don't think any unprescribed drugs will give a player an edge and will be a detriment to their game.

By un-prescribed do u mean illegal drugs (i.e. coke) or legal drugs people take without a prescription? I take adderall only when I play and it 100% improves my game; focus level, stamina, everything. Now I hate playing if I can't find any addies, so I guess in the long run it does hurt my game. But when I do have them Coursing through my veins everything just seems to fall into place at the table.

Pro tip: the poker table is the best place to find addrall/Ritalin Connections, second only to college campuses. It's a pretty common drug (younger) poker players take I have found

Haha. Unfortunately I live in a country where Aderall doesn't exist. I bring Ritalin with me from Iran, which is half as decent as Aderall, and yeah people who think it doesn't give you a clear edge definitely haven't tried it and played poker.

I just dunno sometimes if it's "fair", to have so much more focus and endurance and a boost to your memory and analytical ability.

what about doping in politics and finance??? Lets test actors and singers as well... Drug testing at any level is a fiasco.

There are a few jobs in this world where drug testing is a good idea.

Oh man this made me laugh!! GG

finance is all doped up, sports are doped up. Do whatever it takes, but doping is no good in the long term

I can tell you from experience that I hope all my opponents do coke or other forms of speed before and during my sessions with them!

Read Check Raising The Devil.

Interested thought. With amount of money being played for in something like the wsop me and with most of the poker community wanting our game to be recognised as a sport ( game of skill, not just gambling) I wonder if there should be drug testing as there is in every other major sport at top level.
Having said that I often take Valium when playing cash games. Can't see any advantage to taking cocaine personally. Can't see my local B&M card room taking piss samples

A friend of mine says if you are going to test athletes for drugs you have to test Hemingway, Pete Townsend, researchers, etc. They clearly can gain an advantage. Anything goes he says. And if some specimen runs a 3.9 100 meter and lifts 3K lbs. an hour later ... shake their frickin hand. Same for pokerz.

For me, I rather not take any.
I cant think straight when i'm on Valium and Aderall makes me jumpy

A. No, there aren't any rules against it.

B. I don't necessarily think it is ethical, but poker is a game of deception and so I would put it in the same class as angle shooting. How can you say no one slow plays though? I see someone get slow-rolled at least once a week.

C. I've used marijuana to help stay calm and take the edge off. It seems like it will help at the beginning but then I begin to lose my high and get tired and then it starts to hurt my play.

D. I wouldn't draw the line anywhere. If someone wants to be cracked out and dressed like a mummy -- by all means have at it. I won't let it affect my game.

You're right. Slowrolls do happen so maybe not the best example, but I was basically trying to give an example of something that isn't illegal strictly, but it's frowned upon in the community.

You make a good point about marijuana or any kind of drugs. You do get some kind of edge to start with but what you gain in edge you lose in edge later.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

I totally agree with you. In fact, if you ask me let athletes do whatever if it improves the quality of the game.

I posted this to get some idea of what the community thinks about this and I guess most people think like me on this topic which is cool

If they made drugs illegal in poker, there would be A LOT less players.

I don't like to play poker unless I am somewhat stoned. Poker (especially tournament poker) for me is a game of boredom conquering and weed makes it easy to focus and chill. I smoke pot every day and if some nerd tried to preach at me about 'doping ethics' I would give him a wedgie and dunk his head in a toilet.

I live in Cali and I am far from the only one. The vape pens come out during the 10 minute tourney breaks. I smoke at the table sometimes discreetly and then play dumb if anyone points it out, no one cares. No one should care, it's glorified gambling, not the pole vault.

The thing is that all the stuff that really boosts your focus such as Adderall is terrible for you long-term. I have yet to meet a regular Adderall abuser who'd have appeared healthy to me. When you decide to do that **** you're trading away your health, it's a choice and IMO a pretty bad one.

If I made the WSOP final table or had a similar once a in a lifetime type of shot at really big money, would I take Adderall or some other concentration-enhancing drug*? Probably. Would I feel guilty about it? Hell no. I'd expect many of my competitors to be doing the same, and if the rules allow it, it's not like there's a moral dilemma.

Regarding weed, I don't think it really boosts your poker ability much (apart from taking away nervousness live etc). Weed-smoking poker players often swear by it but I think it has more to do with the fact that they're longtime stoners and can't focus without being high anymore. I've never heard of anyone who'd have started smoking weed to gain an edge at poker. It's pretty far from "doping" IMO.

*I don't really know much about how the stuff works, so this is assuming it'd be guaranteed to work and have no short-term side effects

A. Not as far as I know, besides the drug dogs at the RIO searching for the dirty pot smoking hippies. Use whatever you want, the disadvantages in the long term probably outweigh the advantages so i'm sure your opponents don't care

B. Sure, it's not like it's MMA or NFL or some sport where you're getting some sort of physical edge. Some people think they play better drunk or high. Most do not. Nobody is going to know or care if you're on something as long as it's not making you intolerable to be around or making you smell awful or whatever.

C. I can't imagine anything helping. I was crippled to under 1bb once in a live main event before the dinner break on day 2 narrowly ITM so I went out drinking with my friends on the 90 minute dinner break. I came back fairly drunk and proceeded to run up a stack and desperately try to sober up since it was 100k up top or something. The intense focus of trying to sober up made me play okay despite being pretty drunk. I then ran KK into AA just before the final table so regardless of the events leading up to that point it turns out it was all irrelevant. If you focus better, then sure, take whatever.

D. What supplements are you taking to suppress your tells lol I can't imagine anything would be useful in that regard. Take whatever you want, nobody is going to get upset by it unless you take PCP or Bath Salts and try to eat peoples faces.

A lot of my friends think they play better on weed. Not a single one of them actually does, at least from my perspective watching them play, they just enjoy playing more so they feel like they do.

this is your brain on drugs...

Speaking strictly personally, I think it is a naively romantic fantasy of an arm-chair, ESPN watching suburban dad to try to convince yourself that something you can do while drunk at 5am in the back room of a closed down Chinese restaurant in a game run by the mob is a sport.

Poker is a thing where people use their smarts to try to get money off other people. It's just barely ethically short of being a total con. Asking if doping is unethical in poker is like asking if if doing heroin when you are a prostitute kills the romantic element.

A hustler worried about the ethics of doping was not born to a hustler.

I can't play poker sober, it is way too slow and boring. Half a joint every two hours makes it easier to sit there playing full ring without wanting to kill everyone.

A. Are there any rules and regulations in poker against "doping" of any kind? Is it illegal to do cocaine, Valium, Aderall, or Beta Blockers before sitting at a table in a tournament? (I'm talking live obviously, since there's no way to regulate that stuff online)
Nothing different than the laws against drugs already.

B. Do you, as poker players, and regardless of regulations, think it's ethical to take such medications and give yourself that edge? I think ethics/etiquette are equally as important in poker as rules, ie it's not illegal to slow play but no one does it.
Your mind is your intellectual property whether you're on drugs or not, just a dumb question lol.


C. Have you ever taken anything to give yourself an edge, and if so, did it achieve what you were hoping it to?
No.

D. Is there a line you would draw as to what should and shouldn't be illegal? ie do taking drugs just equal wearing a hoodie insofar as they only help you in not giving your opponent some information which is the whole goal of poker? Or do you think it's ok to take supplements to help you last longer at the tables, but not ones that help you give off inaccurate tells?

Drugs affect everyone differently, what I want to nkow is what drugs did you take when you posted this.