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06-14-2016 , 12:33 PM
Hi
I am playing a 1$/2$ cash game. The bet sizes are not accurate here cause I don't really remember. I took a ~100$ pot previously from this villain who limp/calls too much.
Preflop: I have KQo
He limped from middle position 2 limps before me I squeeze to 15$. Everyone folds, he calls.
Flop: K97 2 card heart flush draw
He donks 13$ .
Turn: 9
He puts 25$ I call.
River: 6 completing the flush draw
He puts 65$ I fold.

On the river: The villain is a quite guy loose an aggressive with draws. I start saying I can't fold this hand and talking more and more, waiting for him to engage in the conversation or give something away. I don't remember the order of the following actions, here's what happen. He starts saying save your money. Usually when people starts talking after I told them I cant fold, I tend to call. But he was talking and I felt like hes being aggressive not friendly and telling me save your money. He tells me I have T8 which makes a strait. I show him KQ and ask him to show one card. After a while, he shows a Ten. If he showed me a heart I tend to call. Showing a Ten can be viewed both ways. He wants me to think he's weak since there is only T8 or T9 that beats me. Or he wants me to see him as strong since his story is that he have T8 so showing a Ten make his bluff more believable and can induce a fold. He can have JT QT and be bluffing. I folded.
Too many confusing tells. He told me many times after the hand that he had T8 after I kept asking him. He can still be lying. What do you guys think?
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06-15-2016 , 01:44 AM
How big was villain's stack and yours?
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06-15-2016 , 04:59 AM
I'd kinda want to jam if he shows a non-heart T
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06-15-2016 , 07:09 AM
Did he look at both cards, then show the 10? Or did he just randomly flip a card over?

The rule in general about talking at the table like this is - if you aren't positive you are better at the table talk than the villain, keep your mouth shut
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06-15-2016 , 11:14 AM
From what i remember I have 300$ he had 200$ because he rebuyed.
He showed a Ten after several minute of me talking and showing I'm weak so there is no way I'm raising after my talk. He looked at his card and showed a Ten.
I start talking to engage a reaction of him. There is rarely things you get of just staring at someone for a couple of minutes.
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06-17-2016 , 01:49 AM
I don't have strong feelings about this one. A few comments, though:

I do like the general idea of, when you imply you're going to call, and they do/say something out of the ordinary, then you should be more likely to call. As you say, generally if someone thinks you're going to call and they're strong, they don't want to 'get in the way' of you calling. You should be willing to try this if you are leaning towards folding and are looking for a possible reason to call.

Conversely, and similar, if you imply you're going to fold, and they do/say something out of the ordinary, then you should be more likely to fold. The thought is: if they are bluffing, and think you may fold, they wouldn't want to do/say something that would change your mind. You might be willing to try this if you are leaning towards calling and are just looking for a possible reason to fold.

But both of these are far from certain of course. One of the factors is that just by you talking you increase the chances of them talking and interacting in general, which lessens the meaning of their behavior in general. (The pattern would be more meaningful if they got a nonverbal indication you were calling or folding.) Long story short: it'll be tough to make a whole lot of use out of these maneuvers as there is a lot of variety.

Some of his behavior would make me more likely to call. Mainly: I would think he'd usually not want to get in the way of you calling, and saying "Save your money" and stuff like that makes me want to call him. Of course he will sometimes be goading you and just talking from being relaxed, but I think usually it'll be a last-ditch effort to get a fold. I would think if he was going to verbally goad you, he would have done it earlier than that.

Conflicting with this, though, is his statement of having T8. Most players don't like to lie. Of course it's possible he's lying, but you'll find that people are often truthful, especially when there's a good chance they could be called.

Also, him showing the Ten, on its own, would generally make me think he's strong, as this is technically a 'weak-hand statement': as you say, it gets rid of a lot of strong hands he could have, and boils down his strong hands to just T8 and T9, which you would think a bluffer would not want to do, as that could theoretically make you suspicious. Especially removing the flush from his range, which could theoretically make you suspicious that he might not bet the river with just a straight.

So it's all conflicting a bit (as behaviors often do) but I think there's a little more evidence of strength than weakness. (Mainly because you'd think he wouldn't want to remove so many strong hands from his range if he were bluffing.)

To go way out on a limb, I actually think it's quite likely he has T9 for trips. Saying "I have T8" when he actually has T9 is the kind of semi-true statements players like to make. Close enough to the truth to not seem too underhanded, and it's fun to play with the truth when you deceive. This would fit with him only being willing to do it after it was clear you were quite weak, and it fits with the idea that him showing the T is likely to make you more suspicious, not less.
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06-17-2016 , 12:02 PM
Thank you for your input Zach!
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06-22-2016 , 10:22 AM
I think he put you on a flush draw, and his statement about saving your money was an attempt to find out where you were. Based on the action, his flop donk is typically a probe or blocking bet, and his urn bet was for value. I like him for T9 as well, but think that you could have moved him off his hand with a shove, though maybe not after taking so long to act.
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